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Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

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Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#51

Post by fsflyer »

tmm1 wrote: post #38
analog31 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the tax code itself were written in Python. def computeTax(**kwargs): .. blah blah .. return how_much_you_owe Of course we all know what comes next... from scipy.optimize import minimize

In 2014, the Policy Simulation Library [1] added a model called Tax-Simulator [2], which is a Python reimplementation of TAXSIM [3][4]. It is available as open-source [5], and designed to let researchers both change existing policy variables and implement new tax reforms in Python. [1] https://pslmodels.org/ [2] https://taxcalc.pslmodels.org/ [3] https://taxcalc.pslmodels.org/about/history.html [4] https://github.com…

France has an open source implementation of their tax code [0]. The paper [1] gives an overview of the implementation language, mlang.

[0] https://github.com/MLanguage/mlang [1] https://arxiv.org/abs/2011.07966

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#52

Post by MaxGhenis »

minhazm wrote: post #39

This calculator doesn't seem to support local income taxes, which many states have [1]. For example Maryland has income tax brackets than other states, but each county levies its own income tax on top of that. I usually use smartasset's income tax calculator [2], which also asks for your location so it can factor in any local income taxes as needed. [1] https://www.thebalance.com/cities-that-levy-income-taxes-319...…

SmartAsset is only a rough approximation based on standard deductions/exemptions and the rate structure. It excludes tax credits and other provisions that make taxsim much more accurate, especially for low-income households.

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#53

Post by yieldcrv »

divbzero wrote: post #32
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #15

This seems beyond misleading it doesn't even have a method to enter most of the now illegal methods to lower your tax bill. Tax straddles were only banned in 1977 before that you should have easily been able to more then halve your tax bill with futures.

Tax straddles—now illegal—is a new concept to me. A couple old articles about it from New York Times : Looking for Tax Losses in Commodities (1977) https://www.nytimes.com/1977/12/11/archives/investing-lookin... I.R.S. Wins On Tax Straddles (1982) https://www.nytimes.com/1982/03/10/business/irs-wins-on-tax-...

Interesting, this is probably why I never heard of straddles in a futures context

They are wildly popular in the options (including futures options) market, but what is described here would be called a calender spread or an unbalanced strangle of some sort. No tax benefits from closing long dated contracts early aside from losses offsetting the gains

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#54

Post by MaxGhenis »

tmm1 wrote: post #38
analog31 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine if the tax code itself were written in Python. def computeTax(**kwargs): .. blah blah .. return how_much_you_owe Of course we all know what comes next... from scipy.optimize import minimize

In 2014, the Policy Simulation Library [1] added a model called Tax-Simulator [2], which is a Python reimplementation of TAXSIM [3][4]. It is available as open-source [5], and designed to let researchers both change existing policy variables and implement new tax reforms in Python. [1] https://pslmodels.org/ [2] https://taxcalc.pslmodels.org/ [3] https://taxcalc.pslmodels.org/about/history.html [4] https://github.com…

My team at PolicyEngine [1] is also now further reimplementing Tax-Calculator in the Python-based OpenFisca framework [2]. OpenFisca US [3] includes all tax logic in Tax-Calculator, plus many means-tested benefit programs like SNAP, and some state tax logic (currently only Massachusetts is complete, though we'll finish the country in the next 12-18 months). You can try it in our PolicyEngine US web app [4].

(OpenFisca US is part of the Policy Simulation Library, and it's developed by a number of former Tax-Calculator developers, myself included.)

[1] https://policyengine.org

[2] https://openfisca.org

[3] https://github.com/policyengine/openfisca-us

[4] https://policyengine.org/us

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#55

Post by MaxGhenis »

runlevel1 wrote: post #27
FullyFunctional wrote: post #3

That's brilliant work, thanks! Imagine if IRS would produce something like this (open sourced) and we could file our returns like this.

NBER's biggest contributors are the US government. Ironically, the IRS isn't one of them.[1] As an aside, I'd love to see US gov research grants start requiring the work product to be made open source. [1]: https://www.nber.org/about-nber/support-funding

Agreed. We're building an open source version of taxsim (plus benefit rules) at https://github.com/policyengine/openfisca-us.

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#56

Post by femiagbabiaka »

ajmurmann wrote: post #30
jandrewrogers wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the 1970s there were massive tax deductions that don't exist today, so the actual tax incidence was much lower than what is implied by the marginal tax rates. There was a major overhaul of the tax code in the 1980s that simultaneously eliminated many of the tax deductions and offset that loss of deductions with lower the marginal tax rates. The change was approximately revenue neutral but made the tax code simpler…

seems like this would render the website pretty useless for anything before that period, right?

It’s not useless, it’s just data which needs context. Like the claim which GP makes that the Reagan tax reform was “revenue neutral” which is dubious at best.

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#57

Post by MaxGhenis »

Fantastic job making taxsim more accessible! We've built an open-source version of taxsim called OpenFisca US [1] which we expose in our (also open-source) web app, PolicyEngine US [2]. We haven't yet implemented all of taxsim—we only have the most recent couple of years, and not all states—but we have some advantages like implementing means-tested benefits and being able to simulate custom tax and benefit reforms, both on individuals and the population (e.g. the budgetary and poverty impacts).

I'd love to get in touch. Will email you from max@policyengine.org.

[1] https://github.com/policyengine/openfisca-us

[2] https://policyengine.org/us

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#58

Post by MaxGhenis »

petercooper wrote: post #49

The US personal tax code looks extremely complicated to British eyes, but British people have a similar calculator at their disposal at https://listentotaxman.com/ though it only goes back to 2000.

We've also built an open-source tax and benefit calculator for the UK, which also lets you simulate custom policy reforms: https://policyengine.org/uk

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#59

Post by hammock »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #21
keehun wrote: post #12

Are all the dollar amounts in the simulated tax output at the top of the page inflation adjusted? For example, I inputted married, with no dependents with $500,000 salary and in 1977, the federal amount was $299,864 and in 2020 was $133,947. I assume these amounts can be compared without further adjusting for inflation? Tangentially, did federal taxes really come down that much?

In the 1970s there were massive tax deductions that don't exist today, so the actual tax incidence was much lower than what is implied by the marginal tax rates. There was a major overhaul of the tax code in the 1980s that simultaneously eliminated many of the tax deductions and offset that loss of deductions with lower the marginal tax rates. The change was approximately revenue neutral but made the tax code simpler…

What were the biggest deductions that don’t exist today?

Re: Show HN: Calculator for US individual income tax, from 1970-present

#60

Post by refurb »

standardUser wrote: post #42
sgjohnson wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But nobody ever paid it as there were millions of loopholes.

You have to be actually wealthy for most "loopholes" come into play. Just like today, non-wealthy high earners take the biggest hit in taxes. And there are way more of those than actually wealthy people. Back then, the hit was even bigger, but the group being hit the hardest was smaller. Politically, this setup seems to help keep those high-earners voting for lower taxes, which makes sense to them since they're the o…

You did have to be wealthy, but $100,000 in 1980 is equivalent to $383,000 today which is pretty wealthy. So it’s basically income above $400,000 today.

And many of the tax “loopholes” involved real estate investment which would be accessible at that income level.

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