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Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

blog.statechannels.org

51–60 of 99 posts

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you got paid for torrenting, a lot less people would torrent because of the much increased legal liability and massive increase in lawsuits.

There are anonymous torrents thanks to I2P. If those were to become more popular, then it might be more interesting to embed payments there.

There is low chance to find a peer in I2P for some already niche material. Tor with clearnet exit nodes is better although still less peers due to NAT.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#52
post #33
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would become the ultimate streaming service. All titles, from everywhere, available on one service. Add in a revenue sharing model for copyright holders and you've got the ultimate entertainment platform.

That was the original idea for Netflix, but the problem is that all the copyright holders decided that they wanted the profits that Netflix was pulling in and created their own streaming services. Pretty soon some ISP is going to sell a bulk subscription to these streaming services alongside their internet package and we'll have truly come full circle.

It already exists. In Sri Lanka, the biggest ISP (Dialog) has a subscription that pays for Netflix, and provides some extra bandwidth to use it: https://www.dialog.lk/netflix

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#53
post #24

Can one state channel be used to pay multiple seeders? Or do I need to create a budget for each seeder I want to interact with?

The funds you deposit at the beginning can be used to pay multiple seeders. You have one "ledger channel", funded by that on-chain deposit, which is being used to open a "virtual channel" for each seeder you connect to. There's a bit more about it in this post: https://blog.statechannels.org/channels-funding-channels/ .

Thank you for explanation. So this solves something I waited for very long.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#54
I honestly haven't spent much time looking into "virtual state channels", but I guess, as someone from Orchid, where we have been tackling this kind of problem in what I've always felt was a much simpler and "more straightforward" way than needing a full "layer 2" network--we are using "probabilistic nanopayments", which is a concept that goes back to the 90s and thereby doesn't have a lot of "crypto" context associated with it, but even that always felt like a feature ;P) that allows for amortized on-chain settlement in a fully peer-to-peer/distributed way (with no federated network of channel "hubs")--I'm really curious to know if anyone has tried to compare/contrast the techniques. (I'd then offer to help doing an integration of our system, which we've had in production for a bit now as part of an app that looks a bit like a pay-by-the-usage VPN market, into Web3Torrent, but I can't tell if the background goal here is to examine all solutions in an attempt to make Ethereum more usable, or if the effort is to narrowly focus on this specific vision of state channels, at which point that would clearly be an awkward interaction at best ;P.)

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#55
post #8

I like this approach to incentivize seeding, this could create a boom in torrenting if it works decently well and enough people hop on board. Too bad this is only running on test net, understandably.

Good luck trying to cash out any meaningful amount. You would need to declare source of funds and you really do not want write "piracy" to your bank.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#56
post #36
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the original idea for Netflix, but the problem is that all the copyright holders decided that they wanted the profits that Netflix was pulling in and created their own streaming services. Pretty soon some ISP is going to sell a bulk subscription to these streaming services alongside their internet package and we'll have truly come full circle.

Yep, all of the property owners want their rent seeking platforms. The fun thing about this service is that the copyright holders don't get a choice. Their content will be on the platform regardless of what they want so they have an incentive to join the profit sharing in order to better control their metadata on the service and provide better support for their users. Or they can sit and complain and lose out on any…

Sounds kinda like the idea behind the Brave browser.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#57
post #50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you? What about these countless "0 seeders" rare materials which never start or stop forever at 90% mark?

Didn't experience this problem much. If not found on any tracker, such a material is probably too rare for anyone to care about. Even with some monetization model in place, it would be unrealistic to keep all sorts of "rare" materials in the world to make $1 from a random stranger coming once a year. Anyway, I would't pay $1

Rare materials are what made some trackers great. Remember what.cd? That was the most comprehensive music catalogue ever. And it worked.

Also, there's the issue of people finding rare source materials, but keeping them to themselves, because sharing is a hassle. Monetization would help incentivize these people.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#58
post #8

I like this approach to incentivize seeding, this could create a boom in torrenting if it works decently well and enough people hop on board. Too bad this is only running on test net, understandably.

Good luck trying to cash out any meaningful amount. You would need to declare source of funds and you really do not want write "piracy" to your bank.

Right but if you can get priority downloads on torrents, access to early releases or use the currency for other things (eg a VPN) Then you don’t need to cash out at all

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#59
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't experience this problem much. If not found on any tracker, such a material is probably too rare for anyone to care about. Even with some monetization model in place, it would be unrealistic to keep all sorts of "rare" materials in the world to make $1 from a random stranger coming once a year. Anyway, I would't pay $1

Rare materials are what made some trackers great. Remember what.cd? That was the most comprehensive music catalogue ever. And it worked. Also, there's the issue of people finding rare source materials, but keeping them to themselves, because sharing is a hassle. Monetization would help incentivize these people.

Okay than just my two cents. I use torrents a lot and never had a problem finding what i needed, and i would certainly not pay a dime for some obscure per-bite streaming. Not in torrents.

Re: Show HN: Web3Torrent – Adding Ethereum Micropayments to WebTorrent

#60
post #10
post #6

"Torrenting has an incentivization problem. There is sometimes a real lack of incentive to seed a file, especially for obscure files where you may only find a single digit number of people that have it. Adding monetary incentives to the existing torrenting structure should prove to be extremely interesting." In my opinion, if torrenting meant one needs to pay for download, we would never have heard about torrents. Th…

This has implications way beyond torrenting. This solves the incentivization of bandwidth in a decentralized way. If we now solve the closely related incentivization of long-term encrypted storage, we would be able to build a sustainable decentralized storage service unlike torrents that are powered by fame or Infura which is powered by corporate philanthropy (which never lasts unless we become the product). This mea…

Fun history: Bram Cohen quit Mojo Nation to make BitTorrent. Mojo Nation aimed to solve exactly the problems you're talking about. It was too ambitious for its time, apparently, but trying is how you find out.
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