How was streaming development of the game? Are you concerned about your source being visible? Or feeling like you are being watched or judged while coding? When did you start streaming development? I'm worried my side project is too early in development to stream... Did you end up having to spend a bunch of time making extra stuff for your audience, like the faq you linked?
Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
51–60 of 88 posts
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#52How was streaming development of the game? Are you concerned about your source being visible? Or feeling like you are being watched or judged while coding? When did you start streaming development? I'm worried my side project is too early in development to stream... Did you end up having to spend a bunch of time making extra stuff for your audience, like the faq you linked?
Oh boy, do I have a huge answer for you!
> How was streaming development of the game?
It was great! People ask me a lot about what I'd change if I could go back in time or start again, and while I would certainly change some technological decisions, I would not change the streaming aspect. There are so many great things that have happened over the years, and I feel like the culmination of all of it can be summed up in this launch-day highlight I took: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/486320333
That one video felt like it made the whole journey worth it.
> Are you concerned about your source being visible?
I wasn't super concerned for a few reasons:
• Code is copyrighted as soon as you write it, so if someone were to take it, I would be able to take legal action against them.
• Perhaps more importantly, I didn't think anyone would want to copy Bot Land's code. Automation games are growing as a genre, but rarely will they include scripting as the main component. To my knowledge, there wasn't a scripting-based game ~4-5 years ago that proved that they could be successful.
• See the next answer...
> Or feeling like you are being watched or judged while coding?
Impostor Syndrome runs rampant with coders. Did I feel like I'd be judged? Yes. Was I? 100% yes (by some people). Were some people mean about it? You'd better believe it. However, I started streaming for accountability and marketing, and I wouldn't have gotten those benefits if I didn't stick with it.
Also, remember that as a streamer, you control who gets to stay around in your chat. People are entitled to their own opinions, but I think the #1 rule as a streamer is that of entertainment: the show must go on. As a programming streamer, this doesn't mean that you have to be entertaining all of the time since you have to be productive while streaming. Either way, in order to keep the show moving, you have to be in a good enough mood to do things. When a troll gets in the way of that, you purge/timeout/ban and move on.
If someone is judging you for your coding style or standards in an unconstructive way, you have tools at your disposal to handle it.
> When did you start streaming development?
I started on September 8th, 2015. I believe I had one follower on Twitch at the time, a real-life friend of mine.
> I'm worried my side project is too early in development to stream...
I don't think anything is really off-limits for a development stream. I've spent entire days streaming myself milling around entirely in a text document (i.e. not even code). I've spent days writing automated tests, triaging bugs, debugging, etc.
> Did you end up having to spend a bunch of time making extra stuff for your audience, like the faq you linked?
Yes. If I had to estimate how many full work days I've put into just streaming-related tasks, I would say it's about 10-15. Granted, you can just start with practically no preparation and see where it takes you, but I don't advise doing that. My advice on streaming hasn't changed too much in the past years; it's mostly encapsulated here: https://blog.bot.land/2016/10/being-a-development-streamer-o...
Streaming is just as saturated as games are nowadays. There are a million streamers trying to make it big who "don't care about the numbers, they're just doing it for themselves". If you want to get started, I'd say that you should come up with a goal pretty early on, and that goal should not be to earn money from the stream. I won't share exact numbers, but I make less than minimum wage as a streamer. As a developer at a traditional job (in the U.S.), I'd make plenty of money.
I'd be happy to answer more questions you may have, although I think you'll have to see for yourself how streaming goes in order to consider whether it's worth it. And be ready to come to the conclusion that it's not worth it since it can affect your productivity and possibly your mood/energy.
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#53Very interesting. It looks just fun at first but become more and more addicting. Good job!
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#54Hey all, I've been working full-time on a game called Bot Land for the last four years, and it just launched: https://bot.land/ In the game, you can make bots with a Scratch-like interface called Blockly or use a subset of JavaScript. Either way, bots are fully automated. Here are some screenshots of the game: https://imgur.com/a/Rs2OWFg Almost all of the development process (~5000 hours) was streamed live on Twitch:…
Where did your EULA come from? Seems a bit brutal :)
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#55How was streaming development of the game? Are you concerned about your source being visible? Or feeling like you are being watched or judged while coding? When did you start streaming development? I'm worried my side project is too early in development to stream... Did you end up having to spend a bunch of time making extra stuff for your audience, like the faq you linked?
Oh boy, do I have a huge answer for you! > How was streaming development of the game? It was great! People ask me a lot about what I'd change if I could go back in time or start again, and while I would certainly change some technological decisions, I would not change the streaming aspect. There are so many great things that have happened over the years, and I feel like the culmination of all of it can be summed up i…
A little more context -- I stream playing games (because it's entertaining to have people drop by). I have no interest in being a streamer for a career, so I don't feel I need to compete with anyone, but if folks found my side project interesting and dropped by to chat I think that could be a nice break.
Do you find it difficult to converse with folks while programming? How do you maintain flow state while streaming? (Maybe this is just a skill you pick up?)
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#56Hey all, I've been working full-time on a game called Bot Land for the last four years, and it just launched: https://bot.land/ In the game, you can make bots with a Scratch-like interface called Blockly or use a subset of JavaScript. Either way, bots are fully automated. Here are some screenshots of the game: https://imgur.com/a/Rs2OWFg Almost all of the development process (~5000 hours) was streamed live on Twitch:…
Where did your EULA come from? Seems a bit brutal :)
A combination of a lawyer and some minor touch-ups I've made over the years as things have changed.
Do you mind clarifying what you find brutal? I am very far from being a lawyer, so I just wanted to make sure I'm protected, which is why I contracted the work out in the first place.
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#57Earlier quoted context omitted.
Oh boy, do I have a huge answer for you! > How was streaming development of the game? It was great! People ask me a lot about what I'd change if I could go back in time or start again, and while I would certainly change some technological decisions, I would not change the streaming aspect. There are so many great things that have happened over the years, and I feel like the culmination of all of it can be summed up i…
A little more context -- I stream playing games (because it's entertaining to have people drop by). I have no interest in being a streamer for a career, so I don't feel I need to compete with anyone, but if folks found my side project interesting and dropped by to chat I think that could be a nice break. Do you find it difficult to converse with folks while programming? How do you maintain flow state while streaming?…
> Do you find it difficult to converse with folks while programming? How do you maintain flow state while streaming? (Maybe this is just a skill you pick up?)
This comic (which you've probably seen!) sums up context-switching as a programmer: https://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt...
Imagine that but multiplied by 100. Every 3 seconds, someone is saying something that you can see out of the periphery of your vision. How difficult it is to interact is up to you; you can hold off on chat and handle it every X minutes, you can let them interact with themselves, or you can interrupt your flow every few seconds.
I try to take extensive notes about what I'm doing at any given moment so that I can always pop the context back off the stack and resume my work. It's a skill you'll hone as you go.
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#58Cool, a modern day Core War! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Core_War
Thanks I just looked into this, I've never heard of it before.
Here is more on its language http://vyznev.net/corewar/guide.html
This is nuts!
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#59Shame about the loot boxes. https://i.imgur.com/NvQIJaG.png
Are you talking about the monetization model, or is something broken with opening salvage packs? I assume the former. The goal was always for Bot Land to be free-to-play, and there were many different approaches to monetization discussed throughout development. In the end, I settled on the one you see in-game now, but the tenets were always the same: https://share.bot.land/monetization.html For reference, salvage pac…
I appreciate your intent to make the game is not P2W and use IAP only for cosmetic items.
However, why not allow users to purchase those items directly? The use of "loot boxes", even for purely cosmetic items, can create dangerous and unhealthy addictive behaviors as people buy again and again trying to get the item they want. A number of countries [0] have made "loot boxes" illegal or placed restrictions on them, so this isn't a purely humanitarian concern.
Additionally, since you can sell those cosmetic items for "Botcoin, which you can then use to purchase anything else in the game." doesn't that end up giving your game P2W functionality? It seems like moving to direct purchases of cosmetic items would eliminate the need for re-sale and prevent concerns about your game being P2W.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loot_box#Regulation_and_legisl...
Re: Show HN: Bot Land, a game where you fight others via code
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
How the hell did you have the ability to drop 5000 hours on this?
I think the other comments were interpreting this as "where did you find the time?" rather than "where did you find the other resources to support that time?" (e.g. money and motivation). I've been maintaining a huge FAQ since I've gotten these questions a lot over the last four years, and this one in particular should answer the question: https://github.com/Adam13531/BotLand/wiki/FAQ#how-are-you-af... I linked that…
I've been in the industry 8 years and worked on maybe a half dozen games but none of the projects was >400 hours.
I don't see how to make the commitment to spend multiple years without like an income coming from it and a team to work with. By myself it just becomes unbearable after a while.
I want to make a living off games. I'm almost 30 and things aren't getting easier.