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Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

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Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#51

Post by monkmartinez »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #41
clavalle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have? I thought the point of crypto-contracts was to make enforcement as automatic as possible...if that is not fully true, are there any neutral verifications services that can hold things in escrow?

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

You are right. This is why these things will not go anywhere. Ultimately they need some kind of "back up"... For example, the system we currently have flows like so: Nation state Military > Federal Police > Local Police > Physical Intimidation via face to face meeting. At every step, stop when lawyers and/or politicians get involved.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#52

Post by monkmartinez »

smokeyj wrote: post #50
pavel_lishin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid No reason an arbitration clause couldn't be included in the contract.

Who or what backs up the arbitrator? This is why we have guns, police, prisons, and militaries and lawyers....

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#53

Post by pavel_lishin »

monkmartinez wrote: post #51
pavel_lishin wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid. You are right. This is why these things will not go anywhere. Ultimately they need some kind of "back up"... For example, the system we currently have flows like so: Nation state Military > Federal Police > Local Police > Physical Intimidation via face to face meeting. At every step, stop when lawyers and/or politicians get inv…

Well, you could have trusted third-party arbiters who would evaluate whether or not to release the funds on delivery of the good or service. But that brings on a whole new level of reputation-economy things you have to think about.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#54

Post by pavel_lishin »

monkmartinez wrote: post #52
smokeyj wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid No reason an arbitration clause couldn't be included in the contract.

Who or what backs up the arbitrator? This is why we have guns, police, prisons, and militaries and lawyers....

If the arbitrator hits the "approve payout" (or "deny payout") API endpoint (or however this works), the e-currency gets cyber-delivered (or not) into my VR-wallet or whatever. I mentioned in another comment the headache that reputation systems required would bring.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#55

Post by monkmartinez »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #53
monkmartinez wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid. You are right. This is why these things will not go anywhere. Ultimately they need some kind of "back up"... For example, the system we currently have flows like so: Nation state Military > Federal Police > Local Police > Physical Intimidation via face to face meeting. At every step, stop when lawyers and/or politicians get inv…

Well, you could have trusted third-party arbiters who would evaluate whether or not to release the funds on delivery of the good or service. But that brings on a whole new level of reputation-economy things you have to think about.

And how deep should that go? Pretty soon you will need arbitration for the arbiters.

Has no one addressed the basic need of a justice system with these crypto currencies?

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#57

Post by mypalmike »

izqui wrote: post #23
monkmartinez wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would the stable coin look like? I mean, we already have 700+[1] "coins." we are way passed the ridiculous stage on that front. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

A stable coin is a crypto asset that is backed by a real value. If you own 1 EthUSD, there is a warranty that someone will give you 1 USD for that token

This is sarcasm, no?

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#58

Post by pavel_lishin »

monkmartinez wrote: post #55
pavel_lishin wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, you could have trusted third-party arbiters who would evaluate whether or not to release the funds on delivery of the good or service. But that brings on a whole new level of reputation-economy things you have to think about.

And how deep should that go? Pretty soon you will need arbitration for the arbiters. Has no one addressed the basic need of a justice system with these crypto currencies?

Like I said,

> that brings on a whole new level of reputation-economy things you have to think about.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#60

Post by brilliantcode »

alexmingoia wrote: post #37

Is https://aragon.one itself using Aragon? If not, why?

Peculiar how author dodges this question, the answer is presumably no.

It's so disruptive even the creators choose to use the old "outdated" way it claims to be solving.

If you don't eat your own dog food it means you don't have confidence in it. So why push the garbage on to somebody else who will take all the risks?

How the heck does this make frontpage?

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