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Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

you.com

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Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#461
post #456

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You packed so many swipey phrases into your comment ("nobody knows who the fuck you are", " ", "you created this problem for yourself", "the more you respond", "this is some poorly thought out", "you don't understand") that the post came across as something between a harangue and an outright an attack. This is not a good way to communicate respectfully on the internet. (Doubly so in the context of a mass pile-on, whi…

You stuck this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165602 You posted this, whether by userscript or directly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167680 and then this subthread, where we're having this conversation after dinging me. The OP didn't disclose the requirement of a browser extension. The linked site didn't function in two out of three browsers, and prompted extension installs on Chrome. It was…

I'm sure you have a lot of good points in here but I don't see anything that changes the specific moderation issue that I was posting about, that your comment went against the site guidelines.

A couple points of clarification in case it's useful:

I pinned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165602 to the top of the thread because that's standard moderation practice for Show HNs. When people post an introductory blurb about the project they're presenting, we pin it to the top (assuming we see it!) and turn off replies. There are two reasons: one is that the introductory blurb is really a companion piece to the original submission and therefore belongs at the top. The other is that people often reply to that blurb with general feedback about the project, which (most likely unintentionally) is a kind of topjacking, i.e. it privileges their response higher up on the page, relative to other users who post general feedback in the thread at large. By turning off replies to the blurb comment, we're treating the blurb as part of the original submission and putting all user responses on a level playing field. It's a nice solution! Sorry for the long explanation (no time to make it shorter &c).

As for https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167680 — I never post anything by script! I do have a lot of keyboard shortcuts in my mod-client-browser-extension to help speed things up. But all posts are done manually. I don't think it would be in the spirit of HN to do otherwise.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We heard you - we no longer require an extension! Hope you give it a try, would love your feedback! :)

Came back and tried it. My reason for entering any random text and not coming back would be because the search results are presented like Pintrest or Digg rather than an easily scannable list format--search engines use formats for reasons. Great UX--if I wanted to pass time scrolling about programming instead of Instagram. My suggestion would be to have all your developers use your search engine exclusively. Use thei…

Thank you, we'll continue iterating on these apps based on feedback :)

I'm an engineer myself and quite like the stackoverflow app - anything particular that you find distracting?

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#463
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You stuck this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165602 You posted this, whether by userscript or directly: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167680 and then this subthread, where we're having this conversation after dinging me. The OP didn't disclose the requirement of a browser extension. The linked site didn't function in two out of three browsers, and prompted extension installs on Chrome. It was…

I'm sure you have a lot of good points in here but I don't see anything that changes the specific moderation issue that I was posting about, that your comment went against the site guidelines. A couple points of clarification in case it's useful: I pinned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165602 to the top of the thread because that's standard moderation practice for Show HNs. When people post an introductory bl…

The first part of your opening sentence is demonstrative of my point, followed by both explanations. You manually touched the thread 3 times, and did nothing to verify or proactively protect the community, but speech you missed the context on is actionable. You've responded to me multiple times, but you still haven't done anything to correct the problem we were all addressing.

..and yeah, I disagree, as I did originally. I think you're being intellectually dishonest here now. So that's three shades.

The analog to 'because I said so' in the world of tools, is a hammer. As I said, it's your hammer, swing it or don't, but spare me the links to your own search results about communication when you aren't actually participating genuinely.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#464

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came back and tried it. My reason for entering any random text and not coming back would be because the search results are presented like Pintrest or Digg rather than an easily scannable list format--search engines use formats for reasons. Great UX--if I wanted to pass time scrolling about programming instead of Instagram. My suggestion would be to have all your developers use your search engine exclusively. Use thei…

Thank you, we'll continue iterating on these apps based on feedback :) I'm an engineer myself and quite like the stackoverflow app - anything particular that you find distracting?

I wasn't speaking of the apps, though I presume they have the same layout as the no install demo. I want search results in a dense text list, not a sparse-with-too-much-whitespace multicolumn 'cards' that seem so popular with UX-style-rather-than-ergonomic-focused startups.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#465
post #197

> But may have private ads I the future So, in the long run, how is your app not becoming Google? Anyone who makes money with ads has rational incentives to not respect your user's time and privacy. That's even worse for search engines. I would gladly pay for search engines that have community curated content, I want business that have incentives aligned with me as a customer, free stuff with ads is horse shit.

Thanks for your feedback. That's helpful. Private ads worked for DDG to some degree but we think it's not the most creative idea. We've just launched our MVP version this week and haven't implemented these other more creative monetization ideas. We care deeply about trust, privacy and choice so we want to be careful: We don't want to implement these things or tell our competition about our plans before making progres…

> We care deeply about trust, privacy and choice so we want to be careful

Then disable your third party tracking, it's even enabled in private mode, it should not be present in any mode.

> getting feedback from our users on them

You've proven yourself to be hostile to feedback, as evidenced in your thread.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks a bunch. We had so much positivity on all other platforms but things here did get very toxic and personal - which was a first for me :( We still listen to our users and dropped the extension requirement. Folks assume a lot of bad intent from us even though Chrome clearly states that the extension only has write access to one field and no other permissions. We'll improve and learn from this. We're a super small…

>Folks assume a lot of bad intent from us even though Chrome clearly states that the extension only has write access to one field and no other permissions. No, it's that we see similarities to that which has burned us before. The insistence on an extension is one example, sure, but there's also the lack of clear answers to questions people have posed about how you intend to handle monetization/selling of user data in…

Let's just call it what it is, HN is stocked full of people who are smart enough to know better before being placated by a nobody with 20MM in debt trying to profit off of us ostensibly by using our community as a soap box. Do not forget this is a community built on VC.

In my opinion, there is zero tech in Richard, he's all suit. Someone who wanted to be a CEO, and now they're a CEO on full display.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#467
I tried you.com about a month ago in beta. Even made it a default browser for 2 days.

I like the concept but for me it is too early. It's also complicated because as a citizen of non-English speaking European country I need to be able to search in my native language. Understandably, the search quality is much worse in my native language than in English.

Also, as with DDG before, I realised how much of a feature the personalisation of Google results is. Alternative engines often sell lack of personalisation as an advantage, and I see the point, but it also means less relevant results.

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#468
post #461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you have a lot of good points in here but I don't see anything that changes the specific moderation issue that I was posting about, that your comment went against the site guidelines. A couple points of clarification in case it's useful: I pinned https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29165602 to the top of the thread because that's standard moderation practice for Show HNs. When people post an introductory bl…

The first part of your opening sentence is demonstrative of my point, followed by both explanations. You manually touched the thread 3 times, and did nothing to verify or proactively protect the community, but speech you missed the context on is actionable. You've responded to me multiple times, but you still haven't done anything to correct the problem we were all addressing. ..and yeah, I disagree, as I did origina…

It's not clear to me what you would consider more genuine. If you want to be specific, I can try!

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you, we'll continue iterating on these apps based on feedback :) I'm an engineer myself and quite like the stackoverflow app - anything particular that you find distracting?

I wasn't speaking of the apps, though I presume they have the same layout as the no install demo. I want search results in a dense text list, not a sparse-with-too-much-whitespace multicolumn 'cards' that seem so popular with UX-style-rather-than-ergonomic-focused startups.

gotcha - thank you! We'll make a note :)

Re: Show HN: You.com, private search engine that summarizes the web – built for devs

#470
post #468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first part of your opening sentence is demonstrative of my point, followed by both explanations. You manually touched the thread 3 times, and did nothing to verify or proactively protect the community, but speech you missed the context on is actionable. You've responded to me multiple times, but you still haven't done anything to correct the problem we were all addressing. ..and yeah, I disagree, as I did origina…

It's not clear to me what you would consider more genuine. If you want to be specific, I can try!

You aren't communicating in good faith now, Dan. You're speaking through a communication framework, using conversational tactics. Those tools are wonderful when used to better ones own communication: be aware it becomes manipulation when used as a control on other's. This isn't confrontational, this is just direct and purposeful dialect.

Let's run this back, and this is the last time I'm engaging with you on this specific topic.

I said what I said, you responded that I broke the guidelines, and accused me of disrespect. Respect is a currency earned in grave experiences, to me. I understand you don't know that, but as a policy in this world: quickly questioning someones respect can be inflammatory. For clarity: Everything I say to you is with respect, care, and purpose.

I responded that it wasn't disrespectful, and voiced my disagreement.

You responded to that by cherry picking and scare-quoting collections of words, irrespective of the context of the entire comment, and flow of the conversation at the time.

That's against the spirit of HN: you already know this. The framework you're communicating through: seeking clarity, I don't understand, etc; entirely disingenuous when you actually know better. You violated the rules to make a point, while trying to tone police me, and coach me on how to communicate in a style you prefer.

Respectfully: "nobody knows who the fuck you are"

Absolute truth with levity, as a combined response to several posts by the OP repeatedly responding with incredulity that everyone wasn't happy to install an undisclosed extension while they advertised a search engine service on a website. It's an entirely obvious and honest response.

""

Levity, brevity, and actually a small kindness. [1][2][3][4][5] Those are just the google related comments. To expound: that's childish circular logic, manipulative talking points, immature tribalism: gibberish is not out of bounds here. This isn't a garage project, this is a corporate venture with major backing; the second thread using other's names as social currency. Poor communication style: avoidant, defensive, while being deceptive: what about guidelines? Respect the house.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29168500 [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29167981 [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29169534 [4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29168719 [5] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29166408

"you created this problem for yourself"

Follow the thread, I refuse to engage with you when you're choosing to ignore conversational flow. They created the undisclosed requirement, the requirement was the most mentioned complaint: they created this problem. That is not a slap, it's a valid observation, and an opportunity to adapt early. Which they have, despite some other questionable ongoing issues.

"the more you respond"

Read my last response, and follow the conversation, they reverted to repeating the same meaningless statements.

"this is some poorly thought out"

They marketed a search service hosted on a website, without disclosing the extension requirement: and further we sink into your missing context; it was user capture.

"you don't understand"

His job title is CEO; is it proper form to question a CEO about deployments, or do we live in world where people have domain expertise in specific fields? Again, you fired from the hip without paying attention to context. Your bias, as I pointed out originally, intellectual dishonesty, and not in the spirit of HN.

If I hadn't made it clear, I'm taking the ding either way. It's your house, but at some point you need to ask yourself if your tao of communication became the site guidelines over time.

Then the actual major issue, that you refuse to acknowledge or engage on: predatory marketing and dark patterns in Show submissions, and your inaction in regards to them. This topic is going to come up again, as it predates this thread. This is a community concern.

Best interpretation is just a mistake, fully respective of workload and personal life. That's great, maybe then you and the community can have a conversation about better processes and ways for us to respond and we can build a solution together. Perfect is an enemy of good just as good enough is an enemy of better. Maintain the house respect.

The only alternative is you're complicit, and intellectually honest reasoning: company policy, employment requirements, etc. This is one of those binary things; the shades of grey begin after the fork.

Disambiguate intent: agreed; now, please. You mentioned damage, and here we are. We can disagree about the tree, and let it be, but I'm also talking about the seemingly untended fire in the forest.

Like I said, I respect the house, I respect the mission, I respect you and the work you do. You quote the show guidelines, they broke the show guidelines: you quote the house guidelines, you break the site guidelines; practice what you proselytize. Do as I say, not as I do is near the peak of intellectual dishonesty. Securing the flock is a shepherds first job responsibility.

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