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Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

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Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#41

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

adverbly wrote: post #27

This is super wrong! Honestly they should probably take this down because of how wrong it is. Where is Norman Borlaug? Looking only at stocks is spitting in the face of every economist in the history of humanity. And they didn't even do that right. A company is not one person for starters! And what about if your company causes another company's stock to decrease in value, thereby destroying wealth? This is embarrassi…

I commented elsewhere that I think that arguing over the definition of "wealth creation" is pointless - obviously there are a million different subjective interpretations of that, and I at least give credit to the author to fully specifying his (admittedly very narrow) methodology.

That said, I think your point about "And what about if your company causes another company's stock to decrease in value" is an interesting and valid one even under the author's very narrow definition. Just take the current (at least very recent) phenomenon where tons of SaaS companies completely tanked due to AI fears. How does Jensen Huang get allocated some of that "wealth destruction"?

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#42

Post by Yoofie »

What is concerning to me is how many people in this comment section have little to no reading comprehension if they even read the site at all. The site is clear of what exactly they are calculating and how (in a specific and narrow way - whether you agree with it or not).

There should be some kind filter/litmus test to prevent people commenting here if they didn't view/read the site first [1]. It will save the rest of us some time reading alot of these garbage comments[2].

[1]: yes I know this is hard problem to solve (if solvable at all), but my general point stands. HN comment quality is steadily degrading because people cant be bothered to RTFA

[2]: Probably should just stop coming here in the first place

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#43

Post by tzs »

adverbly wrote: post #27

This is super wrong! Honestly they should probably take this down because of how wrong it is. Where is Norman Borlaug? Looking only at stocks is spitting in the face of every economist in the history of humanity. And they didn't even do that right. A company is not one person for starters! And what about if your company causes another company's stock to decrease in value, thereby destroying wealth? This is embarrassi…

It is a list of very wealthy people showing how much they created for others and how much they created for themselves.

Norman Borlaug was not wealthy.

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#44

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

tzs wrote: post #43
adverbly wrote: post #27

This is super wrong! Honestly they should probably take this down because of how wrong it is. Where is Norman Borlaug? Looking only at stocks is spitting in the face of every economist in the history of humanity. And they didn't even do that right. A company is not one person for starters! And what about if your company causes another company's stock to decrease in value, thereby destroying wealth? This is embarrassi…

It is a list of very wealthy people showing how much they created for others and how much they created for themselves. Norman Borlaug was not wealthy.

> showing how much they created for others

Except it's not even that, even if you still only look at outside investor returns.

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#47

Post by tzs »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #44
tzs wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is a list of very wealthy people showing how much they created for others and how much they created for themselves. Norman Borlaug was not wealthy.

> showing how much they created for others Except it's not even that, even if you still only look at outside investor returns.

Sure, we can argue about whether it is measuring that correctly, but my point is trying to look at how well billionaires have done at creating wealth for others.

All these commenters listing people for inclusion who created a great deal of wealth but aren't/weren't billionaires (many of them not even wealthy) are missing the point of the list.

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#48

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

tzs wrote: post #47
hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> showing how much they created for others Except it's not even that, even if you still only look at outside investor returns.

Sure, we can argue about whether it is measuring that correctly, but my point is trying to look at how well billionaires have done at creating wealth for others. All these commenters listing people for inclusion who created a great deal of wealth but aren't/weren't billionaires (many of them not even wealthy) are missing the point of the list.

No, that's not my point, as a commented elsewhere. Even restricting it to "outside investor returns generated by billionaires", this list is only looking at outside investor returns since the IPO and in excess of T-bill returns.

Drew Houston generated tons of wealth for outside investors, but only for pre-IPO investors, hence he's on the list with a -3B number, because post-IPO investors have done so poorly.

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#49

Post by squidbeak »

What a bullshit list this is. It's high time we grew out of this myth that 'wealth creation' comes from capitalists. Any list like this first needs to make some effort to quantify how much of that 'wealth' is being created by employees, or scientists and engineers whose ideas made the venture responsible for that wealth possible. And as others point out in this thread, look at how much wealth these capitalists destroy, from crushing competition, monopolistic practices, legal intimidation, or most of all from imposing unfair burdens on other companies by lobbying for tax breaks or paying workers too little. All of which shift non-trivial costs onto the shoulders of others.

Re: Show HN: Richest people in the world by wealth creation instead of ownership

#50

Post by bwanab »

adverbly wrote: post #27

This is super wrong! Honestly they should probably take this down because of how wrong it is. Where is Norman Borlaug? Looking only at stocks is spitting in the face of every economist in the history of humanity. And they didn't even do that right. A company is not one person for starters! And what about if your company causes another company's stock to decrease in value, thereby destroying wealth? This is embarrassi…

It is indeed wrong if it were trying to show a list of people who have helped humanity, but that is clearly not what it was intended to show. The specifically define what they're showing as market value of company a founder created minus the amount that the founder took out of the company. In so doing, it downgrades Elon Musk considerably presumably because he's retained so much of the shares of his companies.
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