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Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

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41–50 of 84 posts

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#41
You have invented essentially an _incredible way_ to poison AI image datasets.

Step 1: Create .meow images of vegetables, with "per-pixel metadata" instead encoded to represent human faces. Step 2: Get your images included in the data set of a generative image model. Step 3: Laugh uproariously as every image of a person has vaguely-to-profoundly vegetal features.

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#44

You generated pretty much ~all of this with Claude (c.f. ASCII diagrams with emojis on each line to "prove" various not-even-wrong claims it was told to justify), and the work is mediocre enough that it's worth full-throatedly criticizing both the work quality and that you inflicted this upon the world. Look how many confused comments there are due to the page claiming features you don't have, don't understand, and d…

> You generated pretty much ~all of this with Claude Haha no, it was a reworked version of an older image format I found that I modified to fit this, yes, there was AI assisted coding involved in the process but it wasn't a "make me an image format that does x"

>what's an "attention map"? with maximum charity, if we had some sort of attention-as-in-LLM-like structure precached, how would it apply beyond one model? By “attention map” I meant a visual representation of where a model can focuses its “attention” when analyzing an image — basically, a heatmap highlighting important regions that influence the model’s output. It isn't something that is very useful now but might be.

> You reinvented EXIF/JPEG metadata with naivete Partly true (at least for now) the core idea was to experiment with alternative metadata or feature embedding, not to replace well-established standards. It's not where I NEED it to be yet but as far as metadata usecases go, it's pretty cool.

> Your setup instructions use UNIX commands up until they require running a Windows batch file It's easier to set windows up to directly open other file formats, it's just a thing (and I'm on windows - so)

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#46

I don't understand the purpose of effectively hard-coding things like edge detection and attention weight maps into the image. There are various ways to do edge detection and various ways to focus attention, so having that fixed and encoded into the image instead of synthesizing it on demand to suit your particular ends seems suboptimal. Wouldn't the kind of metadata that's most useful be things that can't be synthes…

Totally fair points, but the idea isn’t to stop at edge maps or simple overlays. This was meant as an early step toward expanding what an image can carry with it for AI workflows.

It’s definitely not finished, more like a poc right now for storing richer, AI-relevant metadata in a portable way. Appreciate you for taking the time to check it out.

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#47
post #4

No one runs an edge detection first then sends the image as a screenshot and then trains ai on it. That's an absurd workflow. Maybe your format could have some use, but I don't find your motivation convincing.

True, it's probably the wording but I meant you could screenshot it and still have the data itself.

> Maybe your format could have some use, but I don't find your motivation convincing.

That's respectable and it very much still is a POC, I hope to keep working on it to be actually great :)

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#48

This is not a good idea in practice. Why not bundle the metadata as JSON or Protobuf via an aux file?

That's how it's usually done. The main reason I tried embedding it directly was to make the file self-contained, so that context always travels with the image itself and it's less tedious.

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#49
post #28

I do like the idea of storing it steganographically, which also serves as a watermark. But it requires a ton of redundancy and error correction, perhaps enough to survive a few rounds of not-too-lossy reencoding. I dunno how much bandwidth is available before it damages the image.

Great point, I like that idea too: I’ll definitely look into adding redundancy and testing how much re-encoding it can realistically handle without noticeable image damage. Thanks for taking the time to check it out :)

Re: Show HN: Meow – An Image File Format I made because PNGs and JPEGs suck for AI

#50

Maybe I'm jaded, but I fail to see how a bespoke file format is a better solution than bundling a normal image and a JSON/XML document containing metadata that adheres to a defined specification. It feels like creating a custom format with backwards PNG compatibility and using steganography to cram metadata inside is an inefficient and over-engineered alternative to a .tar.gz with "image.png" and "metadata.json"

Yes, separate metadata has great advantages, but it can get separated from the main file pretty easily. Many social media platforms and email sites will let you embed PNG files. But they won't let you embed an image with a separate metadata file that's always kept along with it.

When images get loose in the wild, this can be very helpful.

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