Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

github.com

41–50 of 51 posts

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#41

Wouldn't printing a QR code be way easier? If it's just for retro fun / Rube Goldberginess than nevermind, carry on :)

Please see my reply to this other similar question:

> Looks like a new 2d barcode format to me. Why I would want this rather QR or any other that have redundancy built in?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44145202#44145279

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#42
post #17

Cool but wouldn’t you forget how to decode it after some time? I.e. wouldn’t engraving regular characters be simpler?

> Cool but wouldn’t you forget how to decode it after some time? Not necessarily. First of all there isn't much decoding to be done: if one follows the recommendation, and one uses the hex input variant as the password (or secret), then decoding is as simple as just writing the number is binary base. For example this password `d74ae47dc6f599d3f9cb847bd77d6b7c` can be recovered by simply starting a Python interpreter…

Makes sense.

Perhaps one could engrave without specialized hardware, i.e. increase the nail and hammer dpi resolution a bit, use a pixel font and become a human dot matrix printer.

But yes, punch card decoding may be not a problem and a punch card could be fine too - and definitely much cooler.

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#44

Surprised no one has mentioned Cryptosteel. https://cryptosteel.com/

Like this product, there are many other products that focus on allowing one to back-up crypto-currency wallet seed phrases.

However, they all have in common the following major disadvantages:

* cost -- I can't see myself paying 50+/100+/150+ EUR for such a product, no matter how fancy is the marketing;

* they are meant primarily to encode ASCII passphrases, thus they have low information density; (most formats allow one to encode only one letter per column;)

* size / format -- I want something easily portable, not a large slab of metal, or a heavy paper-weight; (thus I've used the standard CR80 ID card size;)

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#46
post #34

Numbered array from 1...

Initially the bits were counted from 0, however this had two issues: * using 0 as starting point would immediately trigger one's "computer science" instinct, and then it's uncertain which bit is actually bit `0`? the least significant one (as is in most cases), or the most significant one? * by using 1 as the starting point, I hope would induce most people to just use it as a counter to number things in the "normal"…

Absolutely makes sense. I have a 1960s desk tchotchke paper tape punch and I am tempted to cut my password store keyphrase into a tape in 7 bit ASCII with checksum as a super-encoded string, and then put it in the tombstone letter with the USB stick and instructions for decoding running the home filestore. A friend has a 3D printer and I think a small optical (light behind) reader and a decode table print might do the trick. There is the sprocket holes in paper tape but the weakness is driving things, and the tape roll is now 5 decades old, so the risk of a tear is there.

I'd do it in my stash of hollerith cards, but I don't have a desk punch. I suppose I could simply take some of the pre-punched ones, and use them as the key phrase!

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#47
post #26

I like the survivability, and the constraint to be doable with common hand tools. For more information density, and easier readability by a less-technical person who inherits it -- at the cost of requiring special tools -- I wonder about using number&letter stamps with a hammer. Or, if you permit very special tools, laser-cut alphanumerics (base16, base58, or base64, for arbitrary bits; or alphabetic passphrases). Ei…

This is a problem the cryptocurrency community has been dealing with for almost a decade: how to securely store a seed phrase backup (48 characters, the first 4 characters of 12 words).

Letter stamps are one option. A number/letter grid you use a simple punch with are much more dense than this but still easy to do with hand tools. There are lots of products with pre-made stamped letter tiles that slide into slots.

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#48

Make sure it's stored in an electrochemically inoffensive environment, including considerations like dissimilar-metal contact, etc. Aluminium is a good choice here especially for being both easily worked and self-passivating in air, but it has some more obscure vulnerabilities which can have impact over decades.

Can you describe those obscure vulnerabilities?

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#49
post #48

Make sure it's stored in an electrochemically inoffensive environment, including considerations like dissimilar-metal contact, etc. Aluminium is a good choice here especially for being both easily worked and self-passivating in air, but it has some more obscure vulnerabilities which can have impact over decades.

Can you describe those obscure vulnerabilities?

Not well, I don't even play a materials scientist on TV. But you have stuff like the differing electronegativities of dissimilar metals and consequent charge migration eventually producing macroscopic electrolysis effects in the chronic presence of an electrolyte, such as moist air or water mixed with road salt, which is why every Jeep Cherokee outside Nevada eventually drops its aluminum heat pan on the road, after it rots out around the steel fasteners fixing it to the frame. You also have things like destructive amalgam formation with mercury, which actually would make a good option for quick destruction in some kind of movie plot scenario, I suppose, and is why you should not try to bring anything containing mercury metal aboard an aircraft. There are also various organic chemicals better than normal air or water at attacking the metal despite its self-passivating habit, and thus will either directly corrode it or make it vulnerable to erosion through repeated formation and removal of the normal oxide layer. I want to say this is what makes atmospheric sulfates dangerous to aluminum before "acid rain" proper, but don't quote me on that. There are probably others, that's just what comes to mind off the top of my head. I believe the US National Park Service has done significant conservation research to maintain the Washington Monument's flashy topper, so that would probably be my next stop, and of course civil aviation also takes a strong and persistent interest in the material's failure modes.

Re: Show HN: PunchCard Key Backup

#50
post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you describe those obscure vulnerabilities?

Not well, I don't even play a materials scientist on TV. But you have stuff like the differing electronegativities of dissimilar metals and consequent charge migration eventually producing macroscopic electrolysis effects in the chronic presence of an electrolyte, such as moist air or water mixed with road salt, which is why every Jeep Cherokee outside Nevada eventually drops its aluminum heat pan on the road, after…

Thanks! I don't know the first thing about materials (lol) so these are super interesting processes, I'll be looking them up. Have a good one :)
Post reply on HN