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Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

mackow.ski

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Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#41

Post by m4tx »

pseudocomposer wrote: post #27

The post mentions an ORM, but the docs don’t provide any examples of how it works. How does the Cot ORM compare to Diesel? There are certainly places where I find Diesel falls short of, say, ActiveRecord (like traversing relationships via “includes”/“eager_load”/etc.). I’m not convinced that these shortcomings warrant a separate ORM as opposed to making contributions to Diesel, but I’m open to being wrong. Are there…

About the docs, there is a guide chapter dedicated to the ORM: https://cot.rs/guide/latest/db-models/

There are several reasons I don't like the existing ORMs in Rust, many of them being overly verbose, some generating unnecessary files, and having somewhat weird DSLs being the main reasons. The main reason, I think, was that none of them supports automatically generated migrations, and I absolutely loved that feature in Django. The differences between existing ORMs sound like a neat idea for another blog post, to be honest, so I'll probably do that soon!

Diesel absolutely can be used, there is no reason it can't - database support is feature flag-gated, so disabling it as as easy as adding one line in your Cargo.toml file. This, however, will obviously also disable some other features that depend on the database, such as authentication through database.

Whether building a custom ORM will be a good idea - only time will tell.

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#43

Post by alabastervlog »

Eikon wrote: post #2

> The ORM is very lacking at the moment and the automatic migration generator only works with a small subset of possible operations, I would have hoped that by 2025, new projects would have moved away from ORMs entirely. They really are a useless abstraction layer that always brings tons of trouble and usually makes queries harder to write. Looking at the first example in the docs https://cot.rs/guide/latest/db-model…

ORMs are great. They afford abundant opportunities to look like a hero by swooping into a project and cutting a page load of forty seconds to under one second.

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#44

Post by m4tx »

bdaebgi wrote: post #29

>Cot was born out of frustration - the kind that every Rust developer feels when searching for a batteries-included, Django-like web framework What about Django?

If Django works for you, I'm absolutely not saying you should switch to Cot immediately! Some people like to have as many type-safety and compile-time checks as possible, so that's the crowd we're trying to satisfy.

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#46

Post by iterateoften »

sgarland wrote: post #32
jherdman wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Composability is the often cited benefit. As an example, I can do the following in Active Record (Ruby): class Account { where.not(active_at: nil) } belongs_to :user end class User (born_on) { where(birthdate: born_on) } end active_users_with_birthdays_today = Account.active.joins(:user).merge(User.born_before(Date.today)) Contrived, of course, but it's not hard to see how you can use these sorts of things to build u…

The thought process can be the same in SQL. You can start by writing SELECT * FROM Account; then add your JOIN to User, then add your predicates. Then you can refine it – here, if I’m understanding the code correctly, you’re using User for a JOIN but never return anything from that table, so you could turn it into a semi-join (WHERE EXISTS) and likely get a speed-up.

> then add your predicates

How are you canonically storing these predicates in code to reuse over 5-10 queries?

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#47

Post by freeone3000 »

bdaebgi wrote: post #29

>Cot was born out of frustration - the kind that every Rust developer feels when searching for a batteries-included, Django-like web framework What about Django?

That would require programming in python, which as everyone knows, is not Rust.

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#49

Post by iterateoften »

Eikon wrote: post #11
schmorptron wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as it's still possible to also use SQL queries with it it's fine, right? I know some people who prefer using ORMs and some who like writing SQL.

It’s not fine because ORMs never make sense as an abstraction layer. They try to map concepts that are inherently incompatible. Relational databases are designed around set theory and strict schema constraints, while object-oriented programming relies on hierarchical structures and mutable state.

Well just because it uses the word object doesn’t mean it is strictly for object oriented programming.

Haskell and Elixir, etc all have ORMs (or rather ecto calls itself a data mapper but functionally it is 1:1 analogous to an ORM in any other language)

Re: Show HN: Cot: a Rust web framework for lazy developers

#50

Post by stavros »

bkummel wrote: post #35

Frameworks that do “everything” are not a good idea. I’m from the Java ecosystem. Spring is the “batteries included” framework there. If you have migrated any real world application to a new major version once, you’ve learned forever that “all in one” frameworks are bad. Please don’t do it! Instead, use scaffolding tools, that give you a head start on creating a new project, using smaller, specialized libs. Also, don…

> Also, don’t use an ORM. Just write that SQL. Your future self will be thankful.

I have never understood this. I've been using the ORM for twenty years now, it's saved me countless hours, and I've very rarely needed to break out of it. When I did, I just wrote an SQL query, and that was it. What's the big deal?

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