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Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

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Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#41

Post by thinkingtoilet »

jtreminio wrote: post #29
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what do you dislike so much about Laravel?

1) *magic* 2) Its ORM of choice uses ActiveRecord pattern which I find to be hideous. DataMapper is far superior 3) Its weird facade patterns is terrible I can (and have!) gone in-depth into my misgivings with Laravel, but it is fine for most projects and teams. It has elevated the average codebase quality throughout the PHP community and introduced many engineers to what PHP can do. Its creator and community have be…

Makes sense. I agree on the ORM. I actively don't use Eloquent when I use Laravel. It's fine for simple actions but I find it can get in the way as the project grows more complex. Thanks for sharing.

Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#42

Post by no_wizard »

jayknight wrote: post #22
no_wizard wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not though. Especially since GraphQL makes no mention of databases. It’s a resource agnostic protocol. This isn’t a technical issue with GraphQL. It’s a culture issue among developers who shoehorn GraphQL and don’t use it appropriately As someone who works on very database intense application GraphQL saves me more work than its ever caused.

Any chance you can point to a good graphql implementation/framework that someone could use to learn best practices?

You're talking about the implementation of the protocol, right?

That is a good implementation of it, called GraphQL Yoga[0]

However I'm concerned there is a slight disconnect here. I'm saying that the technical specification of GraphQL does not lend itself to being bad, rather its the failure of developers to really understand its purpose and what its for (its a giant aggregator, with various ways to optimally aggregate things together, depending on what is optimal for a given problem set)

For that, I recommend becoming more familiar with the specification itself[1] because thats what I'm talking about. The specification (and thus its technical nature) doesn't prescribe anything regarding how you get data on to the graph. Many people equate GraphQL with database problems[2]

This doesn't mean I don't understand that GraphQL has shortcomings, but all approaches to APIs have short comings. I have found GraphQL has the least amount

[0]: https://github.com/dotansimha/graphql-yoga

[1]: https://spec.graphql.org

[2]: Common complaint I see all the time. I find it stems from a failure to understand how the entirety of GraphQL is meant to work, and some of the mechanics within. Like when to appropriately leverage DataLoader[3], for instance.

[3]: https://github.com/graphql/dataloader

Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#47

Post by cies »

I've went through a similar journey, with some PHP in the early days, then a lot of Merb/Rack/RoR experience. Though I'd not say PHP is back. I'd avoid it for new projects as there are --IMHO-- much better languages available for free.

What I really liked from webdevt in Ruby was Rack. https://github.com/rack/rack (gosh I prefer the simplicity of the old logo)

And I found a Rack-like architecture in "http4k" https://www.http4k.org

In a way Kotlin can be looked at as a "typed Ruby". Sure Ruby now has optional types, but I believe it's not something easily bolted on later. The whole lang + stdlib should be built in an idiomatic way. Changing the language a lot later usually creates a mess in the stdlib.

The framework http4k delivers is very similar Hono/Dumbo, but it has a Rack built in as well. Also, http4k is make by functional programming enthusiasts. So it clearly separates logic and data.

Small request: Please make Hono clickable in the README!

Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#48

Post by shikck200 »

We actually target a HUGE legacy PHP codebase (its over 16 years old, with over 1M LOC) with Haxe. I would not EVER write vanilla PHP for anything else than a toy website, because there is no amount of testing that makes it stable enough.

We still have a lots of legacy PHP, but its slowly being refactored to Haxe. With Haxe we get a really nice typesystem, and a "faster than Go" compiler. It has pushed our productivity thru the roof.

We still need to use external dependencies tho, as PHP lacks any concurrency in the core language, so we also have a Go API for fetching data concurrently, and also use it as a BI directional socket for the frontend and as a queue server.

Otherwise, the stack is pretty much PHP7 from top to bottom.

Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#49

Post by gregoriol »

jtreminio wrote: post #29
thinkingtoilet wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what do you dislike so much about Laravel?

1) *magic* 2) Its ORM of choice uses ActiveRecord pattern which I find to be hideous. DataMapper is far superior 3) Its weird facade patterns is terrible I can (and have!) gone in-depth into my misgivings with Laravel, but it is fine for most projects and teams. It has elevated the average codebase quality throughout the PHP community and introduced many engineers to what PHP can do. Its creator and community have be…

Symfony has a huge lot of magic (text/non-typed config files, factory/abstract bloats, ...), and even dark magic (compilation passes, ...), but it's better than Laravel in many ways indeed.

A simpler framework with modern techniques would be great though.

Re: Show HN: Dumbo – Hono inspired framework for PHP

#50

Post by gregoriol »

leftnode wrote: post #32
racl101 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was about to start looking for a PHP micro framework. I wish Lumen was still supported.

Symfony 7.2 can work as a micro framework, believe it or not: https://symfony.com/blog/new-in-symfony-7-2-simpler-single-f...

They say it "can" but it is not first class in their docs or minds, so it's mostly up to you to figure out how to do most of things then. It would be better to have an independent micro framework with a clear scope of what it can and cannot do compared to the full Symfony stack.
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