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Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

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Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#41

Post by jt2190 »

joneholland wrote: post #17

I can’t think of a single time where my backend was literally just a crud api over entities. These toys fall apart beyond a hello world app. No validation, no authorization, no authentication, no property level permission, no events, no auditing… the list of what is actually needed for a real application goes on.

Rather that dismiss this Proof-of-Concept as a “toy”, I think it’s useful to step back and ask whether all of those things (validation, authorization, authentication, auditing) require lots and lots of code to express, or if they could also fit into a single YAML file approach.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#43

Post by 65 »

Cool. But how would this be advantageous over a traditional ORM like Prisma?

I use Prisma and I like that I can define my tables in a simple file, and also use it with Express to add some middleware or auth or various backend things if I want. This API seems pretty similar to Prisma as well.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#44

Post by IshKebab »

isoprophlex wrote: post #11
mike-the-brain wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you mean?

Javascript YAML warriors not understanding what a computer actually is. Also https://noyaml.com/

If you don't allow anyone to stop at a certain level of abstraction then nobody knows "what a computer actually is". I'd wager you don't know all the details of your computer's branch predictor and reorder buffer and whatnot... and if you do do you know about rebuffering and setup times and ...

Don't gatekeep.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#45

Post by razodactyl »

perrygeo wrote: post #34
joneholland wrote: post #17

I can’t think of a single time where my backend was literally just a crud api over entities. These toys fall apart beyond a hello world app. No validation, no authorization, no authentication, no property level permission, no events, no auditing… the list of what is actually needed for a real application goes on.

This is absolutely true. The magical "write a model, get an app" approach is so tempting. But it's focusing on the wrong problem - optimizing for the initial tutorial experience, not the lifecycle of a production app. That initial scaffolding takes, what, an hour or two? Getting that down to a minute or two is not a high priority, considering 99.9% of the lifecycle of the app is dominated afterwards by what that stru…

The "eject" paradigm never sat well with me.

If it's there as an option it means eventually it will be used and there's usually no easy way to go back...

The unsettling part is wondering if you made the right choice at that point which usually is a non-problem but the point of a framework is to establish convention and order.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#46

Post by brunaxLorax »

perrygeo wrote: post #34
joneholland wrote: post #17

I can’t think of a single time where my backend was literally just a crud api over entities. These toys fall apart beyond a hello world app. No validation, no authorization, no authentication, no property level permission, no events, no auditing… the list of what is actually needed for a real application goes on.

This is absolutely true. The magical "write a model, get an app" approach is so tempting. But it's focusing on the wrong problem - optimizing for the initial tutorial experience, not the lifecycle of a production app. That initial scaffolding takes, what, an hour or two? Getting that down to a minute or two is not a high priority, considering 99.9% of the lifecycle of the app is dominated afterwards by what that stru…

Hi perrygeo, Manifest dev here, I totally agree with you: quick starts can be harmful in the middle/long term so most of the times I would probably accept to invest more time in the beginning building something flexible.

However, you are talking here as a senior/expert developer - as you were already coding in 2010 ;) - but junior devs OR frontend devs may not be able to create that Django+DB+API app so easily. That is an important point to consider.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#47

Post by brunaxLorax »

jt2190 wrote: post #41
joneholland wrote: post #17

I can’t think of a single time where my backend was literally just a crud api over entities. These toys fall apart beyond a hello world app. No validation, no authorization, no authentication, no property level permission, no events, no auditing… the list of what is actually needed for a real application goes on.

Rather that dismiss this Proof-of-Concept as a “toy”, I think it’s useful to step back and ask whether all of those things (validation, authorization, authentication, auditing) require lots and lots of code to express, or if they could also fit into a single YAML file approach.

Stay tuned :)

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#48

Post by flessner »

I am a huge fan of the "Backend as a Service" segment (Supabase, Pocketbase, Appwrite, ...)

One of the big benefits that they all share is that they use a mainstream DB in the back (Supabase -> Postgres, Pocketbase -> SQLite) so you have a possible upgrade path if you need it - Is this the case here? I can't even easily tell what it uses as a DB, SQLite?

Also Authentication and more importantly Authorization are so prominent in the other BaaS I mentioned - completely missing here.

Not to disregard what this project is doing, but it might be better suited as a CMS that has some backend features... like for forms or appointment booking. Nevertheless, if I find a need for it in the future, I'll surely try it out.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#49

Post by isoprophlex »

IshKebab wrote: post #44
isoprophlex wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Javascript YAML warriors not understanding what a computer actually is. Also https://noyaml.com/

If you don't allow anyone to stop at a certain level of abstraction then nobody knows "what a computer actually is". I'd wager you don't know all the details of your computer's branch predictor and reorder buffer and whatnot... and if you do do you know about rebuffering and setup times and ... Don't gatekeep.

Even though I immediately see how my comment could be considered to be gatekeeping, I won't apologize for it, as I mostly mean to explain what I think was the meaning of the grandparent: that writing YAML for a living means you're a business user, not a software engineer. Just as you'd have to squint real hard to label a pro excel user as a software engineer. If everything is easy, you're not learning transferable skills.

And I hate YAML with a passion, too, an opinion which I feel I'm entitled to.

Re: Show HN: I built a backend so simple that it fits in a YAML file

#50

Post by robbiejs »

Cool project, it speaks to me! And I dig the emojis.

I like the chain able queries, like:

``` const cats = await manifest .from('cats') .where('breed = siamese') .andWhere('active = true') .andWhere('birthDate > 2020-01-01') .find() ```

What is it inspired by?

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