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Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

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Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#41

Post by _8rlb »

dredmorbius wrote: post #26

An interesting test case would be the aalib demo, bb: https://sarata.com/manpages/bb.1.html Here videoed off an emissive display: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=WubDqdV2r9k And what seems to be a direct screen capture: https://yewtu.be/watch?v=JFFJYJ6QkME I'm also curious as to what display damage high-speed refresh causes, and what reasonable guidelines at avoiding this might be. I have an Onyx BOOX Max Lumi, whose displa…

The pixels are classical mechanical, as opposed to LEDs (electrical) or other solid state devices.

The particles in a pixel could deform/burst or clamp together over time, as they move around. Both scenarios lead to decreased contrast.

The less they move the longer the screen will last. I've no experience with the manufacture of those displays but I reason with physics.

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#42

Post by nmstoker »

tpmx wrote: post #31
dredmorbius wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say you might get your wish in about five years, after present patents expire. There will doubtless be new developments, but present devices are absolutely sufficient for e-book reading and most web surfing / tablet tasks, even at monochrome and modest 0.5 -- 16 Hz refresh or so. Higher-quality display is slower to refresh, though almost all instances are well under sub-second. Colour displays are slower as I und…

We really should shorten patent lifespans to like 10 years. And like 5 (or 0) years for pure software patents. Things are moving faster these days, with the interwebs and all.

Yes, 20 years in the modern world is far too long given that the pace of change is dramatically faster than it was when 20 years seems reasonable. It would motivate patent holders in their efforts to get the most from a patent, as many sit far too comfortably bidding their time which defeats the public good purpose behind patents

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#43

Post by dleslie »

dredmorbius wrote: post #27
Sparkle-san wrote: post #18

Imagine where electronic ink displays could be today if E Ink wasn't such a terrible steward of the initial technology.

I'd say you might get your wish in about five years, after present patents expire. There will doubtless be new developments, but present devices are absolutely sufficient for e-book reading and most web surfing / tablet tasks, even at monochrome and modest 0.5 -- 16 Hz refresh or so. Higher-quality display is slower to refresh, though almost all instances are well under sub-second. Colour displays are slower as I und…

Are you referring to the patent encumbered display tech found in the olpc laptops?

Because those were simply phenomenal. I have two and I've never had a display quite their equal in direct sunlight.

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#45

Post by _8rlb »

_8rlb wrote: post #38
IshKebab wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Later he writes a comment saying is due to network latency. Seems a bit dubious if you ask me though.

I measured and split the latency between the main tasks of a single frame draw. The main culprit was network delay as I am transmitting raw pixels (one u8 per pixel) compressed with zlib. That's a hit of ~140ms for half a screen. Next in line is the screen refresh (unmeasured, perceived). Then the optional post processing (~20ms for half a screen), and housekeeping, like keeping track of dirty regions (about as long)…

P.S. parent was right in doubting the claim, as a parallel connection from a client on a regular desktop refreshes at 30 HZ regardless of the size of the update.

The explanation is that I take end-to-end network measurements (from request of update to a full buffer of pixel bytes). That delay might be due to the slow processor on device, or an inefficiency in the networking code in my application.

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#47

Post by oblak »

Oh, this is great. I love my Kobo Libra 2 mostly due to its form factor and weight and have been thinking of using it for something more. Hard to believe the thing can do full scan text refresh 30 at fps, though. Probably not updating everything at once?

Also, I did not know eink degradation due to normal use - as opposed to sitting on your beloved device :( - was a thing, even at high fps.

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#48

Post by nh2 »

phonethrowaway wrote: post #32

I'm so excited for this: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/bigme/bigme-worlds-firs... Basic color support for syntax highlighting is what I've been waiting for...

It looks interesting, is there some information that describes whether this runs an upstream Linux kernel without version-locked binary blobs?

It says it runs Android, and thus the above makes the difference on whether I one rely on 2 years of updates or 20 years of updates.

Re: Show HN: A VNC viewer for eInk devices capable of 30 FPS when writing text

#50

Post by _8rlb »

oblak wrote: post #47

Oh, this is great. I love my Kobo Libra 2 mostly due to its form factor and weight and have been thinking of using it for something more. Hard to believe the thing can do full scan text refresh 30 at fps, though. Probably not updating everything at once? Also, I did not know eink degradation due to normal use - as opposed to sitting on your beloved device :( - was a thing, even at high fps.

The degradation is speculation on my part. I haven't ever experienced it.

Yes, the 30 fps rate is for small updates. A full screen update (scrolling) is commonly less than ~200 ms, and there are still ways to bring that number down.

I agree, the Libra 2 is great :) Try koreader, it's noticeably faster than the stock reader application.

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