Show HN: Spanish Basic • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#41

Post by titaniczero » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:00 AM UTC

101008 wrote: post #14

Hey there. I agree with some of the comments out there - a new language in Spanish does not make much sense in the pragmatic way: understanding English is a requirement for every coder out there. However, most of the technical projects out there do not have to be usable by everyone or have an interesting goal. So kudos for creating a language from zero (I saw the code on Github and I am sure you learnt a lot doing th…

I want to make crystal clear that my comments are 100% in a pragmatic way, as a project it is awesome and very enriching. Kudos to the OP.

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#42

Post by Maken » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:30 AM UTC

formerkrogemp wrote: post #25

baisq wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spanish for "yes" is "sí", not "si".

Pedantic is being the friendly, correcting cynic. Native Spanish speakers use si as si in texts and informal messages all the time. It's understood from context; I think.

In the case in question, a programming language, we can assume a context-free grammar, and therefore the keyword equivalent for "if" would be "si" and the keyword for "yes" would be "sí".

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#43

Post by Maken » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:43 AM UTC

asveikau wrote: post #26

Not a native Spanish speaker, but i think they mixed up sino and si no . This is a common typo and they are etymologically the same. I guess by collapsing multiple words into a single token they collapse the two phrases. Eg. I look again and see finsi which seems strange from a Spanish grammatical sense (just like endif is clearly not English)

It is indeed a typo, and my guess is that the author tried to avoid an ambiguity in the parser there.

In Spanish "else" would be "si no", which is literally "if not". Assuming he supports negating any boolean expression with "no", this means the only way to differentiate between "else" and "if not " is to parse ahead and check if "si no" is being followed by a boolean expression or literally anything else. Also, under these conditions, assigning a boolean at the end of a conditional, e.g. "si no foo = falso", would always result in a parsing error.

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#44

Post by waqf » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:56 AM UTC

dspillett wrote: post #11

Koshkin wrote: post #5

As far as I remember, in Algol 68 the physical representation of the program was separated from the syntax. So, in theory one should have been able to write hacer ... recah

In memory BBC BASIC was tokenised so for instance PRINT was stored as just the byte 0xF1, so you could write a program lister that used other language's words (I remember at least one of those existing) and it would be similarly easy to go the other way too.

In fact this was used in the 100% official localisation of BBC BASIC … into American. The US edition of BBC BASIC 3 would print "COLOR" instead of the obviously correct keyword "COLOUR".

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#45

Post by phreack » Mon, May 30, 2022, 1:59 AM UTC

simlevesque wrote: post #38

Me encanta eso ! Estoy aprendiendo la idioma y me parece muy interesante la idea de programar en español.

I'm not able to tell you why it is that way, but idioma (as well as the similar sounding idiota, and the similarly ending bioma) is a masculine word, so it'd be "el idioma". I wish it were easier to rationalize.

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#46

Post by dhosek » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:19 AM UTC

phreack wrote: post #45

simlevesque wrote: post #38

Me encanta eso ! Estoy aprendiendo la idioma y me parece muy interesante la idea de programar en español.

I'm not able to tell you why it is that way, but idioma (as well as the similar sounding idiota, and the similarly ending bioma) is a masculine word, so it'd be "el idioma". I wish it were easier to rationalize.

They’re words with etymological roots in Greek.¹ ἰδίωμα (and similar words that originated in Greek) is a neuter noun. When it was imported into Latin, it retained its grammatical gender (for Latin nerds, it’s third-declension so the genitive is idiomatis and not idiomæ as one might naïvely expect). When it entered modern Romance languages by way of Vulgar Latin, the neuter and masculine genders collapsed into a single masculine gender and thus it became masculine.

⸻

1. This is the case with many nouns that violate the expectation that an ending in -a would be feminine. The usual chapter one vocabulary word, nauta also comes from Greek, although in that case, the original word is ναύτης which is first-declension in Greek and remains first-declension in Latin, unlike idioma/ἰδίωμα.

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#47

Post by simlevesque » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:27 AM UTC

phreack wrote: post #45

simlevesque wrote: post #38

Me encanta eso ! Estoy aprendiendo la idioma y me parece muy interesante la idea de programar en español.

I'm not able to tell you why it is that way, but idioma (as well as the similar sounding idiota, and the similarly ending bioma) is a masculine word, so it'd be "el idioma". I wish it were easier to rationalize.

¡Gracias!

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#48

Post by underyx » Mon, May 30, 2022, 2:34 AM UTC

There was a lightning talk about a Spanish Python at PyCon earlier this month: https://youtu.be/xQ0-aSmn9ZA?t=34

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#49

Post by UmbertoNoEco » Mon, May 30, 2022, 4:41 AM UTC

baisq wrote: post #20

UmbertoNoEco wrote: post #4

Supongo eres hablante nativo, pero la sintaxis es horrible: "Para i=1 hasta 7 hacer" no hace ningún sentido. En todo caso sería " Para i en (1..7)" o "Desde i=1 hasta 7" o "Para i=1 mientras i In any case, all these copy-paste-just-literally-translate-the-keywords languages offer nothing new.

"no hace ningún sentido" makes no sense in Spanish either :)

Meh, it is documented since many many years ago and it is grammatically correct even if it is not considered "standard Spanish", although it is part of the common usage of many native speakers (me included), many similar constructions: "hacer ascos", "hacer falta", "hacer ilusion" ,

https://twitter.com/raeinforma/status/1134042127565033473?la...

Re: Show HN: Spanish Basic

#50

Post by ksaj » Mon, May 30, 2022, 7:23 AM UTC

Before Linux and GNU got internationalization, I worked on a French product cleverly named Ligne-X (Line X) to translate all of the display text (error messages, etc). Ironically, I don't speak French. But I didn't need to, since another team did that part.

That was an exasperating workload. So kudos to you on this. It looks like you put a lot into it.

Some people are going on about English being mandatory for programming. It isn't necessary for non-English speaking people learning programming to learn both English and Programming at the same time, so I disagree with that. Professionally, sure. But this is a learning language, and it looks nice and clean.

And there are a lot of people who code for fun, just for themselves, too. They don't need to learn English just to accomplish that.

I wonder how many people realize some Lisp implementations are localized to similar effect. Set the language, and then the keywords change to something more appropriate for those languages.