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Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

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Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#41

Post by citilife »

ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

As a manager, I encourage my team to just say "no" where ever possible. I also always push to halve the times of meetings I'm in (and typically that works well).

- We have 10 min standup every day

- We have 30 min sprint planning every week

- We have 30 min retro every week

Beyond that we will talk as necessary between people. In reality pushing back is pretty effective at determining if a meeting is important. If they don't move it for you, you didn't need to be there.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#42

Post by mindtricks »

ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

To add to that, if you default to the position that any meeting is pointless, you'll find yourself continually frustrated and likely wrong at times. Talk to your manager about time management and let them know where you think your time is best served. They may agree and give you the cover you need to duck out, they might revamp some meetings to be more effective, or they may just give you the context you need to have the meeting become more valuable to you personally.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#43

Post by avs733 »

ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

It can also be useful to, perhaps, engage in either a passive or active interrogation of what the value and purpose of a meeting is in the eyes of others.

I agree there are some useless meetings. I would, however, classify more meetings as unproductive but important. That represents a different problem and necesitates a different solution but seems to beguile engineers. Does an unproductive meeting need to be cancelled or fixed?

Finally, I have experienced meetings where one person who believes the meeting is useless and just runs it off the rails. The meetings can BECOME useless because of that person's behavior. Others may see it as valuable for alignment, clarification, ideation, many other reasons even if you don't. In my experience, the people who are willing to act on a belief a meeting is useless more frequently misunderstand what the goal of a particular meeting is, misunderstand the role of meetings in engineering/technical work, or just are generally premaddona assholes.

Declaring a meeting useless for everyone is rarely a productive solution. The idea that technical work is primarily and individualized activity is about as outdated as waterfall project management.

You can constructively engage in a conversation of 'what is the purpose of this meeting in the short and in the long term' without talking about the cost. If we reduce everything to that metric of observability then coders should be paid in lines of code written not thinking done.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#44

Post by daa_bears »

AlwaysRock wrote: post #39
ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

If you are in a leadership position this is kind of a nightmare. If you are just an IC you're bolder than I. tbh my morning standup could be reduced to a sentence.

For your standup, I've really enjoyed my teams switch to writing out what were doing that day in our team's chat channel. Then we still have a standup, but we talk about interesting problems and blockers and not just what were doing.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#46

Post by chrsig »

phgn wrote: post #37
ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

As engineer, I just continue working on other tasks in every single meeting. For me that multitasking works, and I don't have meeting fatigue at all. Then again, I'm not the main decision maker most of the time.

Also an engineer - I've always found this to be really disrespectful. It's not multitasking, it's ignoring the people around you. If the meeting isn't worth your undivided attention, it's better to drop the organizer a note about why you're excusing yourself from it.

Making the meeting host compete feel like they're constantly competing for your attention is just really demoralizing.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#47

Post by globular-toast »

phgn wrote: post #37
ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

As engineer, I just continue working on other tasks in every single meeting. For me that multitasking works, and I don't have meeting fatigue at all. Then again, I'm not the main decision maker most of the time.

That's even worse, IMO, because you're contributing to the waste of every else's time and making the meetings seem more important than they really are.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#48

Post by groby_b »

If you think a meeting is pointless, say so. And don't attend.

Yes, sometimes that's hard due to being in a toxic environment, but in that case, a passive-aggressive measure like a meeting cost calculator will go over like a lead balloon too. (Source: I tried ;)

Same goes for "multitasking". If a meeting doesn't have value, don't attend, or leave as soon as that's clear.

If most meetings have no value to you, have a hard look as to why. Sometimes, it's because there's a meeting culture. But sometimes, it's because you're missing the point. (for meeting organizers: Spell out the damn point in the agenda, will you? You have an agenda, right?)

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#49

Post by SavageBeast »

ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

I think sometimes people may forget that in a lot of cases a person may be put on a meeting invite as a courtesy to inform them a topic is being discussed. This is a form non-repudiation such that the person being invited cant complain later they were left out of any decision making.

Re: Show HN: An app that helps engineers fight back against pointless meetings

#50

Post by globular-toast »

ryandrake wrote: post #25

This always seems to be such a controversial view here, but if you think a meeting is pointless and that you have nothing to gain from it or contribute to it, just don't go. We're all grown-ups at work, and are ultimately responsible for our own productivity. Be prepared to articulate exactly why you feel some other use of your time is more appropriate, in case someone asks, but nobody is holding a gun to your head t…

Agreed. I posted this exact thing in a comment the other day and it got downvoted. If you get an invitation to a party, you don't just automatically accept, you would (or should) question whether you will enjoy this party. A meeting should be the same, except it's not about enjoyment but about worth. What are you expected to contribute to the meeting? What will you gain by attending? If this isn't clear, ask for clarification. If it's still not clear, decline the invitation.
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