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Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

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Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#41

Post by TeMPOraL »

skinnymuch wrote: post #33
weeboid wrote: post #14

I honestly can't tell if this is satire or no; leaning towards former

I don’t think it is satire. I find the comments that want to spin cogs into a good thing by changing the name and manipulating the imaging so lowly people don’t know how you they are really viewed, worse than any thing this app is doing, satire or not.

I also assumed it is satire.

I think a lot of devs eventually realize that the whole "gig economy", as it is, is essentially an API for humans.

I also agree that, on the off chance this isn't satire, its current, honest form is much better than the proposed "marketability improvements" would make it.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#42

Post by prepend »

jdub wrote: post #4

"Human Lambdas"… "Mechanical Turk"… you're fully aware these are horrible names for horrible ideas, right?

Mechanical Turk is on of the best product names I’ve ever seen. It’s accurate. It has a clever story behind it that almost no one knew beforehand.

I like it because it sparks curiosity and it pays off when people learn. As opposed to other “quirky” names that aren’t clever and are intrinsicly meaningless.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#44

Post by BrianOnHN »

skinnymuch wrote: post #30
BrianOnHN wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a lot of work. Instead, let's just keep maximizing income inequality. This way there will always be someone in the position to treat humans like the cogs they are!

Which position are you taking? The OPs comment isn’t going to make income inequality any better. Does “respecting” people by not saying they are a cog when it is not true help or hurt income? I’m sure your sarcastic comment is pointing to one of these. I personally don’t enjoy giving some one no additional money or perks but pretending they are not cogs like OP is saying. You’re treating them like cogs by not paying…

The OPs comment does affect income inequality when implemented at scale.

As easy as the implementation is for you and your team, those results have relatively little affect in the scheme of things. In order to make the suggestion a paradigm shift, money would be moved from the top to the bottom in an "at scale" implementation.

Edit: paying your workers less per output has essentially been the last major management paradigm to drive growth over the past 20+ years. The counter examples (Costco) are the exception.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#45

Post by prepend »

I find these cognitive surplus [0] really promising. If not for identifying the people for whom a task is easy. It’s always neat to me how some things are easy or hard for people and the time is spent trying to match this effectively.

I have a friend who is a regex expert and can answer in seconds what takes me hours. But I’d never want a thousand people to ask vim each arcane question in case ve also knows the answer for that topic.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_Surplus

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#46

Post by brobdingnagians »

skinnymuch wrote: post #31
sam_goody wrote: post #10

You know, this exact same idea could be done in such a way that doesn't dehumanize the, uh, humans. In fact, I bet your mileage would even increase if you could figure out a way to actually respect even the grunt laborers. That is, I like the idea of streamlining your workflow, of compartmentalizing, of assembly lining. I like the ideas of integrating that which can be fully automated with what cannot. And of making…

This sounds..not good. You know how I know how much of a cog some one is? How much they are being paid. Putting a bow on top of work that pays peanuts is worse in my opinion than being honest. Your tactics appear to try to manipulate underpaid or lowly paid cogs into not believing they are what the company and managers truly see them as - just that.

I think the name is clever and a bit cute, though perhaps easy to misinterpret. But on point of principle:

No matter what someone is paid (or whether they are paid at all), they are a person, with hopes, dreams, feelings, and dignity.

I know you probably already believe that, but it's worth stating anyway.

Our society does tend to treat people like cogs, but that is a problem with our society.

Words influence how we feel about others. We should use words that affirm the dignity of others, then work to make that a reality. Just because most people treat other people like cogs doesn't mean that we should throw in the towel and accept it; much less start doing it ourselves.

I agree that putting a bow on nastiness is messed up, but the root problem is the jerks. If we stop even thinking in terms of people having dignity, the jerks have won one more step. We should spread kindness and dignity wherever we can, and try to get people to name things that imply dignity.

I agree there is a major problem of people with less pay being treated poorly. It seems respect is only given to the high paid, but that is messed up when you stop to think about it. Our real worth isn't determined by our financial status. What if we lose the financial status? Would our friends desert us, our rights be removed, and we end up forgotten?

I for one want to work against the world becoming more like that.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#47

Post by BrianOnHN »

rob74 wrote: post #28
BrianOnHN wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like a lot of work. Instead, let's just keep maximizing income inequality. This way there will always be someone in the position to treat humans like the cogs they are!

...and a steady supply of humans willing to be treated like cogs, because they desperately need the money.

Spot on. Welcome to the world of problems by design.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#48

Post by brobdingnagians »

fny wrote: post #12
sam_goody wrote: post #10

You know, this exact same idea could be done in such a way that doesn't dehumanize the, uh, humans. In fact, I bet your mileage would even increase if you could figure out a way to actually respect even the grunt laborers. That is, I like the idea of streamlining your workflow, of compartmentalizing, of assembly lining. I like the ideas of integrating that which can be fully automated with what cannot. And of making…

> If they feel they are being "cogged", they will work like cogs Most people who get into Turking know they're going to be cogs, and honestly, the only thing they care about is getting paid properly for it. No pie-in-the-sky marketing BS is going to make up for sub minimum wage compensation.

I think their biggest concern is getting paid. But I don't think it's good for people to accept dehumanisation, even if they seem to be okay with it. Subconscious acceptance of things like that can mess people up. They are free to accept it, but I think we should carefully consider what we are doing to people's self image.

People with a feeling of creative control and ownership or having a stake in success tend to do a better job too. Self esteem definitely helps productivity.

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#49

Post by fny »

brobdingnagians wrote: post #46
skinnymuch wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds..not good. You know how I know how much of a cog some one is? How much they are being paid. Putting a bow on top of work that pays peanuts is worse in my opinion than being honest. Your tactics appear to try to manipulate underpaid or lowly paid cogs into not believing they are what the company and managers truly see them as - just that.

I think the name is clever and a bit cute, though perhaps easy to misinterpret. But on point of principle: No matter what someone is paid (or whether they are paid at all), they are a person, with hopes, dreams, feelings, and dignity. I know you probably already believe that, but it's worth stating anyway. Our society does tend to treat people like cogs, but that is a problem with our society. Words influence how we…

You can call people "sanitation engineers", "sandwich artists", or whatever (these are real titles by the way) and for as long as you treat them as replaceable, interchangeable, and cheap, they will be cogs.

Also are "production worker", "factory worker", "shipping clerk", or "driver" any better or worse than "human lambda"?

Re: Show HN: Human Lambdas – Create Human in the Loop queues and outsource them

#50

Post by Closi »

clarkevans wrote: post #21
Closi wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is how the sausage get's made. If you work inside the meat industry, the room where animals get slaughtered is called the kill chamber. It's not called the "cattle life transition chamber" because it is self-aware and it's better to call a spade a spade.

We don't have to make sausage.

As long as people are buying sausage, people will make and sell it.

And to extend the metaphor beyond where it should probably go, products taste better when sausage is added and people don't always need to know the ingredients.

Your data will have gone through something very similar to this a million times - it might have been validating your photo on a dating site or transcribing your receipt for expenses, but these sort of use-cases would not be done as cleanly if it wasn't for human in the loop.

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