Show HN: Play rock paper and scissors against a untrained neural network

Post by vinceguidry » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 7:15 AM UTC

seanhunter wrote: post #40

vinceguidry wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you made random moves in a game of chess or checkers you'd get beat by a four year old with the barest grasp of the rules. In fact I would love to see a chess-playing robot that actually does that, it would thrill the crap out of my nephews to beat the big bad robot in a game of wits. I'm unaware of the name of the property that RPS exhibits that makes it ungameable by a random opponent (zero-sum?) but ordinary RP…

2 person adversarial games with hidden information (eg poker or RPS) exhibit a "Nash equilibrium in mixed strategies". That is, the best strategy involves a random selection between choices with some probability weights. Since RPS is a very simple game, the weights are equal, so the unbeatable strategy is to choose between rock, paper and scissors with uniform probability on each round taking no account of what you o…

Post by mbrumlow » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 9:08 AM UTC

vinceguidry wrote: post #37

mbrumlow wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not chess. But a game of chance. You can't form a strategy based off random without predicting said random. I thik it was already pointed out but I have not had a chance to verify. This game uses your played move in tht training set to train before making it's predictions.

RPS is not a game of chance. Outcomes of games are determined not by a random process, but by the choices of the players. If the players rolled dice and biggest roll wins, that's a game of chance. The dice can't pick how they're thrown, nor can the throwers influence the outcome. If either of those two things change, the game is no longer purely one of chance. The game can be set up in many ways that invite strategy.…

Post by seventytwo » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 9:22 AM UTC

camjohnson26 wrote: post #35

akovaski wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that that the player's move is actually being fed to the training data before the computer makes its prediction. Take a look at the variable 'y' after making your move and you'll see that it includes the player's last move. Because 'y' is updated before the computer makes its prediction, this shows that the computer uses the player's current move as part of the training set to decide its move.

I took a stab at fixing this: https://github.com/victorqribeiro/jokenpo/pull/3

Post by mbrumlow » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 9:33 AM UTC

ps101 wrote: post #44

vinceguidry wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you made random moves in a game of chess or checkers you'd get beat by a four year old with the barest grasp of the rules. In fact I would love to see a chess-playing robot that actually does that, it would thrill the crap out of my nephews to beat the big bad robot in a game of wits. I'm unaware of the name of the property that RPS exhibits that makes it ungameable by a random opponent (zero-sum?) but ordinary RP…

The Nash-Equilibrium solution to RPS is playing each option a third of the time. Simplified, this means that if you're playing this strategy, your opponent's best strategy is to do the same and there is nothing either of you can do to increase your own expectation.

Post by scottlocklin » Fri, Jul 26, 2019, 11:34 AM UTC

akovaski wrote: post #27

atum47 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

after the player makes a move the nn makes ones and add it to it's training data. the move the player does after that is added as a counter move to the nn move. this way I treat the data as time series.

The problem is that that the player's move is actually being fed to the training data before the computer makes its prediction. Take a look at the variable 'y' after making your move and you'll see that it includes the player's last move. Because 'y' is updated before the computer makes its prediction, this shows that the computer uses the player's current move as part of the training set to decide its move.