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Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

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Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#41

Post by ringaroundthetx »

frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #37
ringaroundthetx wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was supposed to be provocative someone took a hard look at the project and made up irrelevant reasons not to participate in owning the underlying gas of the network, forfeiting a 11,800% profit from $7 after the DAO incident to $830 today, and maintains that opinion while continuing to masquerade them as related!

Nothing about that relates to their investment decisions. If I'm in blackjack holding a 19 and I choose not to hit and the next card comes up a 2, was that a bad investment decision?

In extremely basic hi/low card counting, if you had the information to suggest that most of the high cards had already been played, then yes that was a bad decision not to hit or weigh it more objectively to come to the same conclusion.

This is in line with whatever analogy you were going for, and OP, who had information.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#42

Post by DougN7 »

rkagerer wrote: post #35
DougN7 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree completely. A shared ledger is a great idea, but not when anyone can write almost anything into it. Then it starts turning into some sort of massive torrent that has to be synced around the world.

So who decides what is worthy? If I value the penis I draw important enough to spend $100 to have it embedded into the blockchain forever, who are you to say it's garbage?

I don’t know. But 1000’s of people drawing pictures, saving their documents, uploading photos, trading files - that’s the problem. A few people doing a proof of concept isn’t a big deal.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#43

Post by rspeer »

DalasNoin wrote: post #40
rspeer wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not a bitcoin fan but I can't imagine anything like this would be affected by the NP-hardness of the traveling salesman problem. It's not like the system breaks if someone finds a way that a payment could have been routed faster. There are quick approximations to the TSP. Also, a payment network doesn't sound like a single object that has to traverse a graph with various costs, it sounds like a network flow prob…

i don't think 0wing got this one 100% right. he is maybe referring to a claim about lightning, that it is going to be private. but this is not true, there will be a full map of the lightning network. david gerard and emin gün sirer(one of the greatest blockchain researchers) have pointed this out: https://twitter.com/davidgerard/status/940311875820179456

I see what David Gerard is saying, it's just that having a map is very different from having to find the optimal solution to TSP on that map. We look at maps all the time and don't solve TSP on them.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#44

Post by [deleted] »

0wing wrote: post #27
kordlessagain wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is your rationalization for saying Lightning is not promising? I think that, given the state of the ecosystem, spreading opinion around as fact is not healthy.

It sounds like Lightning is attempting to solve an unsolvable NP-hard math problem regarding routing. [1] The Lightening network is mostly a gimmick attempt to save the design failures of scaling from the BTC communities refusal to increase network bandwidth in order to save disk space. That and for the Lightening network to work without opening up a dozen "deposit channels" into everywhere you shop, users will be pu…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#45

Post by beaconstudios »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #41
frgtpsswrdlame wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing about that relates to their investment decisions. If I'm in blackjack holding a 19 and I choose not to hit and the next card comes up a 2, was that a bad investment decision?

In extremely basic hi/low card counting, if you had the information to suggest that most of the high cards had already been played, then yes that was a bad decision not to hit or weigh it more objectively to come to the same conclusion. This is in line with whatever analogy you were going for, and OP, who had information.

your analogy to card counting is incorrect. You wouldn't hit on 19.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#46

Post by DalasNoin »

rspeer wrote: post #43
DalasNoin wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i don't think 0wing got this one 100% right. he is maybe referring to a claim about lightning, that it is going to be private. but this is not true, there will be a full map of the lightning network. david gerard and emin gün sirer(one of the greatest blockchain researchers) have pointed this out: https://twitter.com/davidgerard/status/940311875820179456

I see what David Gerard is saying, it's just that having a map is very different from having to find the optimal solution to TSP on that map. We look at maps all the time and don't solve TSP on them.

there is a lot of missinformation going around in the crypto-currency world. i think that after this privacy claim was debunked it morphed into the idea, that lightning was mathematically impossible. somewhere along the line TSP was added to the explanation. 0wing says TCP is "unsolvable NP-hard" which doesnt make much sense. well, its hard to understand the path of rumors. lightning might yield a constant factor scaling improvement with worse security and worse convenience, but it can work.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#47

Post by [deleted] »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #26
kordlessagain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not invest in ETH. The reason why varies, but essentially I hold a belief that various portions of their stack have various levels of trust which are not well understood. For example, the Ethereum community has "allowed" people to use poorly constructed libraries to build contracts that were later invalidated by someone "goofing around". Other incidents show the stakeholders are willing to change core code to ge…

> The Ethereum community has "allowed" people to use poorly constructed libraries to build contracts that were later invalidated by someone "goofing around" Ah back when Ethers were $7 each instead of the $800 today The real question is whether your poor investment decisions are relevant to the discussion of this thread These are commodities, broken things about them makes the more valuable or scarce, just like when…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#48

Post by googletazer »

guywaffle wrote: post #32
josiahtu wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No need to be so cynical.

I don’t see what’s so cynical? There are a bunch of pointless Ethereum contracts made to get Ethers quick and free. This and crypto.love are dumb as hell and shouldn’t be posted on here

Then build something better instead of shitting on others

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#49

Post by guywaffle »

googletazer wrote: post #48
guywaffle wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t see what’s so cynical? There are a bunch of pointless Ethereum contracts made to get Ethers quick and free. This and crypto.love are dumb as hell and shouldn’t be posted on here

Then build something better instead of shitting on others

That makes no sense. I am saying this is a scam to get Ether quick and cheap. There is no need to put a drawing or a love note on a blockchain, and me making something better won’t stop people from getting scammed by stuff like this.

Re: Show HN: Ethereum Canvas – Draw on the blockchain

#50

Post by kordlessagain »

ringaroundthetx wrote: post #26
kordlessagain wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do not invest in ETH. The reason why varies, but essentially I hold a belief that various portions of their stack have various levels of trust which are not well understood. For example, the Ethereum community has "allowed" people to use poorly constructed libraries to build contracts that were later invalidated by someone "goofing around". Other incidents show the stakeholders are willing to change core code to ge…

> The Ethereum community has "allowed" people to use poorly constructed libraries to build contracts that were later invalidated by someone "goofing around" Ah back when Ethers were $7 each instead of the $800 today The real question is whether your poor investment decisions are relevant to the discussion of this thread These are commodities, broken things about them makes the more valuable or scarce, just like when…

> poor investment decision

We should talk about your poor assumption generation algos. Risk assessment indicates a willingness to examine certain "opportunities" which only exist in hindsight (i.e. confirmation bias) over observations of truth of reality. For example, if we knew the DAO hack was possible, ETH may never have gotten expensive enough to justify a fork for it.

Factually, it is true that the Ethereum maintainers are willing to fork their chain if it means getting their money back from someone who found a hole in their codebase - a codebase few people understand at a fundamental level. This inability to understand it at a fundamental level, coupled with the inherit irrationality of the markets indicates it may be of higher risk than a Bitcoin investment.

This means "opportunity", at least in the context you give it, could indicate a blind willingness to follow the lead of others, when one themselves may be in doubt over how they may guarantee a given level of risk during the waiting period for outcome.

That you'd bother to attack me over this point is fairly irrational, except if you were one of those people hoping to continue to blow hot air into this particular crypto market.

Fact is, we just might NOT need Ethereum where we're going. Time will tell.

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