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Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

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Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#41

Post by pavel_lishin »

clavalle wrote: post #39
Jd wrote: post #32

My 'cryptoequity' project was on the Hacker News front page a couple years ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7992667 ), in which many commentators noted that many high value applications were probably illegal. As enthusiastic as I remain about the overall premise of equity replacements issued on cryptographically secure ledgers (including Etheruem, which I started with by running the educational channel Ethe…

> one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have? I thought the point of crypto-contracts was to make enforcement as automatic as possible...if that is not fully true, are there any neutral verifications services that can hold things in escrow?

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#42

Post by wyager »

Jd wrote: post #32

My 'cryptoequity' project was on the Hacker News front page a couple years ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7992667 ), in which many commentators noted that many high value applications were probably illegal. As enthusiastic as I remain about the overall premise of equity replacements issued on cryptographically secure ledgers (including Etheruem, which I started with by running the educational channel Ethe…

> If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have?

Isn't this sort of a "solved" question, in the sense that we know there's only so much a computer can do? The practical answers are, of course, reputation systems and incentivization systems like escrow. Both of those are areas of active research.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#43

Post by brilliantcode »

izqui wrote: post #26
dleslie wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Evidently, you hard fork the chain. Ethereum proved that automated systems that serve human needs will eventually incur human intervention.

"automated systems that serve human needs will eventually incur human intervention" this is just wrong. The world is moving towards more automated systems, the fact that there was one mistake at a given point in time doesn't mean anything. By mistake I mean putting so much money on an unproved experiment.

so if your account gets emptied by hackers, it's justified because this is just how decentralization works? Who is claiming this is "how the world works now" and who asked for a solution? It seems to me Ethereum and other products built on it solves problems imagined by the creators and balk when people poke holes at it, without responding with a modicum of rationality but a lot of self fulfilling prophecy.

Why would anyone expose themselves to more risks by using Aragon?

Why decentralize and create more problems when everybody has been using centralized systems without issues over the past few centuries?

What problem is it that you are solving with Aragon? I don't see one.

Better yet, are you running Aragon to run your company? This question has come up multiple times in the comments with no response. It's pretty telling.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#44

Post by seagreen »

semiel wrote: post #35
seagreen wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A flagship Solidity product has already been pwned for $50 million dollars, leading to a hard fork of Etherium. This is not fake " ~deep concern~ ", this is a real problem.

It was a badly designed app written by a couple of over-eager developers who didn't have any security plan in place. If you blamed the language every time a website got hacked, there wouldn't be any languages left.

Language choice matters. If asked to write a pacemaker in PHP I would refuse.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#45

Post by primitivesuave »

Is there a way to pay for domain, DNS, and hosting costs with Ethereum? If so, one could build a wide-range of SaaS products that accept payment in Ethereum, and would be free of taxation and government regulation. While the SEC understandably exists to prevent defrauding of investors, this dashboard gives an investor perfect clarity into a company's financial strength and liabilities, and allows for an informed decision to be made without any official paperwork.

What would be really interesting is if some day you could buy a self-driving car with Ethereum. With an Uber-like app that accepts payment in Ethereum, and blockchain investments to rapidly scale the business up and reinvest profits, one could see a self-driving car company dominate the market in a far shorter time than it took Uber to do so.

It's even possible that some day we see a unicorn startup with a solo developer.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#46

Post by aaron-lebo »

primitivesuave wrote: post #45

Is there a way to pay for domain, DNS, and hosting costs with Ethereum? If so, one could build a wide-range of SaaS products that accept payment in Ethereum, and would be free of taxation and government regulation. While the SEC understandably exists to prevent defrauding of investors, this dashboard gives an investor perfect clarity into a company's financial strength and liabilities, and allows for an informed deci…

Namecoin exists, but governments are never gonna just be like "hey, don't pay taxes, no problem".

What would be really interesting is if some day you could buy a self-driving car with Ethereum. With an Uber-like app that accepts payment in Ethereum, and blockchain investments to rapidly scale the business up and reinvest profits, one could see a self-driving car company dominate the market in a far shorter time than it took Uber to do so.

Why can't a regular company do that? Blockchian payments are really the very least of your problems if you are trying to create a profitable self-driving car company.

What benefit does it offer other than being cool?

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#47

Post by soverance »

brilliantcode wrote: post #43
izqui wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"automated systems that serve human needs will eventually incur human intervention" this is just wrong. The world is moving towards more automated systems, the fact that there was one mistake at a given point in time doesn't mean anything. By mistake I mean putting so much money on an unproved experiment.

so if your account gets emptied by hackers, it's justified because this is just how decentralization works? Who is claiming this is "how the world works now" and who asked for a solution? It seems to me Ethereum and other products built on it solves problems imagined by the creators and balk when people poke holes at it, without responding with a modicum of rationality but a lot of self fulfilling prophecy. Why would…

Oh yeah, the number of questions in this thread without answers should tell you everything you need to know about Aragon.

Any founder with a legit business who shows his project to Hacker News and gets ~40 some odd people to comment on it would almost certainly want to keep up that conversation.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#48

Post by cslarson »

monkmartinez wrote: post #20
izqui wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad assumption there, Aragon companies will be able to handle tokenized fiat (USD, EUR, etc). Santander is working on a stable coin project to tokenize EUR and USD http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-iss...

What would the stable coin look like? I mean, we already have 700+[1] "coins." we are way passed the ridiculous stage on that front. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

A stable coin is a token that, using some mechanism, is able to hold a stable value. The most prominent group trying to make this work using ethereum, I think, is http://makerdao.com/docs/.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#49

Post by [deleted] »

monkmartinez wrote: post #20
izqui wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bad assumption there, Aragon companies will be able to handle tokenized fiat (USD, EUR, etc). Santander is working on a stable coin project to tokenize EUR and USD http://www.coindesk.com/santander-vies-become-first-bank-iss...

What would the stable coin look like? I mean, we already have 700+[1] "coins." we are way passed the ridiculous stage on that front. [1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cryptocurrencies

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#50

Post by smokeyj »

pavel_lishin wrote: post #41
clavalle wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have? I thought the point of crypto-contracts was to make enforcement as automatic as possible...if that is not fully true, are there any neutral verifications services that can hold things in escrow?

A crypto-contract can't evaluate the work you've delivered. If we enter into some arbitrary crypto-contract for me to build you a chair in exchange for 20 currencies, and I bring you a stump I hacked out of the woods, there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid.

> there's no underlying system that can tell me to fuck off and that I'm not getting paid

No reason an arbitration clause couldn't be included in the contract.

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