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Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

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Re: Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

#41

Post by Manishearth »

lucideer wrote: post #39
taf2 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so 1997 to 2001? MS was innovating. What about from 2001 to 2006? 5 years of zero development? Big difference between Chrome and IE6. IE7 (2006 - 2009) IE8 (2009 - 2011) You can't seriously tell me this is comparable progress to Chrome/Mozilla/Safari? My issue with anyone equating IE6 to recent browsers is they are not comparable. It was really bad during the IE6 days and we had no alternative. Today when new feature…

As I already said above, I'm analogising; pointing out minor inconsistencies doesn't undermine the comparison. No two scenarios are ever identical. The post-IE6 history you're referring to is a bit moot: we have yet to see where Chrome will go. Minor factual note: the Edge engine is open-source, so your arguments for studying Chrome's implementation source applies equally to Microsoft at this stage. > IE is the ultim…

> the Edge engine is open-source,

Only the Javascript engine is open source, fwiw. That's not the majority of the browser.

(Unless EdgeHTML was open sourced since I last checked.)

Re: Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

#42

Post by erlehmann_ »

Manishearth wrote: post #33
erlehmann_ wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to me that nowadays Webkit/Blink has replaced IE for developers not caring about interoperability – with some even going so far as to claim „IE? but nobody uses that!“.

FWIW clip-path is specced and in CR stage right now. I think it's okay to implement it provided that there is an understanding that any further changes are reflected even if it breaks existing code using the new property. All browsers do this. Firefox implements around 88 properties (30 of these are "logical properties", which aren't exactly new properties) that Chrome doesn't[1] and Chrome implements around 68 prope…

Clarification: My comment was not primarily about browser developers, it was about web developers that do not care about interoperability – and either do not test in non-Webkit/Blink browsers or declare that for some reason (e.g. marketshare, “it is just an experiment”), other browsers are irrelevant in their specific case.

Re: Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

#43

Post by Manishearth »

erlehmann_ wrote: post #42
Manishearth wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW clip-path is specced and in CR stage right now. I think it's okay to implement it provided that there is an understanding that any further changes are reflected even if it breaks existing code using the new property. All browsers do this. Firefox implements around 88 properties (30 of these are "logical properties", which aren't exactly new properties) that Chrome doesn't[1] and Chrome implements around 68 prope…

Clarification: My comment was not primarily about browser developers, it was about web developers that do not care about interoperability – and either do not test in non-Webkit/Blink browsers or declare that for some reason (e.g. marketshare, “it is just an experiment”), other browsers are irrelevant in their specific case.

Ah, fair point. Yeah, this irks me a lot.

Re: Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

#44

Post by lukehaas »

Manishearth wrote: post #43
erlehmann_ wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clarification: My comment was not primarily about browser developers, it was about web developers that do not care about interoperability – and either do not test in non-Webkit/Blink browsers or declare that for some reason (e.g. marketshare, “it is just an experiment”), other browsers are irrelevant in their specific case.

Ah, fair point. Yeah, this irks me a lot.

It's important for web developers to experiment with new browser features. Browser vendors encourage this as it can help them with crushing bugs early and refining their specs.

Re: Show HN: CSS Pokemon – created with clip-path and CSS variables

#45

Post by Manishearth »

lukehaas wrote: post #44
Manishearth wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, fair point. Yeah, this irks me a lot.

It's important for web developers to experiment with new browser features. Browser vendors encourage this as it can help them with crushing bugs early and refining their specs.

Yes, which is why experimenting with features on the standards track is okay. At a certain stage it becomes less likely that the feature will change behavior.

The problem arises when the experimentation is done with entirely new features that the browser wants to push (features which haven't been discussed and somewhat settled on with other browsers). If they aren't behind a flag, sites start using it, and then you have to support the legacy syntax forever.

clip-path is on the standards track. It's not going to change much. So browser vendors exposing it by default is fine.

(However, if you're building an experiment using these, at least test in other browsers and put up a warning that it won't work in some browsers. A lot of the interior issues today are because folks only bother to test in chrome. Ultimately this means that all browsers have to copy Chrome bugs to make things work.)

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