Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#341

Post by Dylan16807 » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 4:22 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #339

Dylan16807 wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well your first link reads like media extrapolating a nationwide trend from next to nothing, and only really talks about the danger of doing it to yourself. The second link doesn't mention timing except the standard 'five minutes' thing, while holding your breath for two minutes is probably going to lead to somewhere between 60 and 0 seconds of oxygen deprivation. So I'm still unsure where the risk of dying comes fro…

> ask somebody physically stronger to "help" you to keep the plastic bag over you head to make sure that you make the time

Right, that forces you to reach two minutes, and also makes sure the bag will be removed promptly.

As far as I can tell most of the danger comes from the possibility of having someone hold you still while you panic, and that is not what I generally consider deadly.

Really not sure if I'm missing something...

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#342

Post by ihsw » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 4:35 AM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #336

TheAnimus wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would have been a blue band in your system. My parents moved to Cornwall when I was child, surrounded on 3 sides by water, I gained my surf lifesaving certificate, I was a good swimmer. Almost two decades passes. I'm in Bali, on a deserted beach with my ex because we "don't want the average experience" or whatever. A small argument and I decide I want a swim. I walk out through the surf, my mind overcome with thoug…

The real shame is you went on a beautiful vacation and ended up in an argument with your spouse. I hope you don't resent your spouse for getting up and leaving, especially since you put yourself in the position to swim while not mindful of your environment. Also, a back-float is always generally a good strategy in salt water conditions when you've lost control or strength to swim. You carry over common waves and it t…

Yeah, I'm having a hard time seeing how laying on your back to catch your breath is a bad idea. I thought everybody did that when swimming for extended periods of time.

The parent does mention swimming against a rip current, which would explain the need to swim at maximum physical exertion for an extended period of time. In that case I don't think he panicked.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#343

Post by milspec » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:13 AM UTC

carbeewo wrote: post #194

irishcoffee wrote: post #30

I would like to point out that any flotation device in a pool besides a life jacket is just asking for problems. I life-guarded for almost 10 years, the only way I would ever let anything that supported a human floating __besides__ an approved life jacket was if the pool was almost empty (such that the one person got my undivided attention) and if I knew the child to already be a strong swimmer. I highly encourage ev…

When I was a young child, my local pool allowed kids to play on large floating foam rafts (like this, but half the length: http://goo.gl/7Y4HbU ). One day I decided to show off my underwater swimming skills to a girl I fancied. After a long swim underwater, I exhausted my breath and came to resurface for air, only to get caught under a stacked pile of 5 of these rafts, with kids standing on top like in that photo! I…

So, how'd that go over with the girl?

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#344

Post by sixdimensional » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:14 AM UTC

IkmoIkmo wrote: post #322

sixdimensional wrote: post #42

When I was about 7 years old, I went to a birthday pool party at a friend's house. I did not know how to swim, and was just standing near the pool, when some other kids pushed me in. I fell in the deep end of the pool, and I had the exact experience described in terms of the drowning response on that site. The other kids didn't know I couldn't swim and assumed I was fine. I nearly died that day - I tried as hard as I…

Yeah so one of the weird things is that you can't yell when you're drowning. It's not something I'd expect if I didn't know better, I'd expect to at least be able to get some shouts and screams off but it's not actually like that. In fact I was once swimming with the son of my dad's best friend in his teens, we'd only seen each other once before as our parents lived in different countries after they married. And some…

I can definitely appreciate your story. Thank you for your heroic action - people like you are like the people who saved my life. I'd say better safe than sorry, but your story also shows the other flip side - you have to be careful as a rescuer as well.

The explanation on the linked website talks about how it can be difficult (and very dangerous) also for the rescuer, with the person grasping for life. I remember the initial panic I felt when I nearly drowned, but with nobody immediately around me, the panic was short and then followed by blackness as I fell unconscious.

Your story clearly points to the - how do I say it - lack of clarity when someone is drowning or not, and the dangers of rescuing as well. A person in that state of panic is simply in pure fight-or-flight mode trying to survive and that can be quite dangerous to rescuers.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#345

Post by yhager » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:16 AM UTC

irishcoffee wrote: post #30

I would like to point out that any flotation device in a pool besides a life jacket is just asking for problems. I life-guarded for almost 10 years, the only way I would ever let anything that supported a human floating __besides__ an approved life jacket was if the pool was almost empty (such that the one person got my undivided attention) and if I knew the child to already be a strong swimmer. I highly encourage ev…

There are tons of all kinds of floaties in every pool I've seen in BC, Canada. The life guards seems pretty strict there, but maybe not for banning floaties.

I have no lifeguarding experience nor education, but what you are saying seems important. Any known research or training practices for lifeguards that would support your claim? I could start a dialogue with our local pool with something like that.

Thanks

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#346

Post by jacquesm » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:18 AM UTC

Dylan16807 wrote: post #341

jacquesm wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ask somebody physically stronger to "help" you to keep the plastic bag over you head to make sure that you make the time

Right, that forces you to reach two minutes, and also makes sure the bag will be removed promptly. As far as I can tell most of the danger comes from the possibility of having someone hold you still while you panic, and that is not what I generally consider deadly. Really not sure if I'm missing something...

> Right, that forces you to reach two minutes, and also makes sure the bag will be removed promptly.

No, it does not make sure of that, besides it said 'a couple' and not 'two' (depending on the person two might very well be enough to harm them, but some might interpret 'a couple' as being even more than two).

The person was suggested to be there to make sure you can't remove the bag yourself and by the time the bag is finally removed it may simply be too late.

From: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Choking_game

"Any activity that deprives the brain of oxygen has the potential to cause moderate to severe brain cell death leading to permanent loss of neurological function ranging from difficulty in concentration or loss of short term memory capacity through severe, lifelong mental disability to death."

Suggesting people do this is highly irresponsible, this is probably the dumbest sub-thread I've seen on HN in all the time that I've been here, which is especially annoying because the main thread is one of the best.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#347

Post by gammarator » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:20 AM UTC

ender7 wrote: post #144

Friendly reminder: rescuing a drowning person (even a child) is incredibly dangerous if you have not been trained in how to do it. They will try to climb on top of you if they get a hold of you and unless you are an exceptionally strong swimmer they will then proceed to drown you. The drowning reflex overrides most people's abilities to process other thoughts, with the result that a loved one is just as likely to dro…

"Reach or throw, don't go" is a mnemonic for this--give the person in distress something other than you to grab.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#348

Post by milspec » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:38 AM UTC

tonyarkles wrote: post #247

trhway wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't we have something like those fitness bands to be worn by children while in the pool - once a person starts drowning the heartbeat and other lifesigns are changing very characteristically and that can just turn the red light on lifeguards console on.

One of the most challenging bits with that is going to be transmitting RF underwater. And an interesting thing to think about is whether or not such a device would end up causing even more accidents, when people start just assuming that "it's ok if I go past my limits, someone will save me"

Underwater RF is no trouble in this case. You have the signal backwards. As long as there is no problem, regularly transmit an identity beacon. Loss of signal is the alert.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#349

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:42 AM UTC

TheAnimus wrote: post #245

TheGRS wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A summer camp I went to when I was younger was very heavily focused on swimming and water craft. We had 3 different colored bands to indicate your swimming ability. Red if you couldn't swim well, yellow if you were OK, but not enough for the deep end and green for the deep end. The counselors tested and trained the kids to go up the color bands, which was pretty neat, but I realize now that it was also a way to keep…

I would have been a blue band in your system. My parents moved to Cornwall when I was child, surrounded on 3 sides by water, I gained my surf lifesaving certificate, I was a good swimmer. Almost two decades passes. I'm in Bali, on a deserted beach with my ex because we "don't want the average experience" or whatever. A small argument and I decide I want a swim. I walk out through the surf, my mind overcome with thoug…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#350

Post by bartkappenburg » Wed, Jul 29, 2015, 5:49 AM UTC

irishcoffee wrote: post #30

I would like to point out that any flotation device in a pool besides a life jacket is just asking for problems. I life-guarded for almost 10 years, the only way I would ever let anything that supported a human floating __besides__ an approved life jacket was if the pool was almost empty (such that the one person got my undivided attention) and if I knew the child to already be a strong swimmer. I highly encourage ev…

It would be nice to know from you which PFD you would recommend from say this list at amazon: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/s/ref=is_pn_1?fst=as%3Aoff&rh=i%...