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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#331

Post by reverendsteveii »

mhuffman wrote: post #155
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrup…

One needn't imagine. Texas's strange attempt to twist civil law such that providing or facilitating an abortion is an injury to anyone who claims it is (and is thus a cause of action where the "injured" person can sue the person providing or facilitating the abortion) has taken this discussion out of the theoretical. Regardless of where you stand on whether abortion should be allowed, the idea that anyone who performs one is liable to the first person to notice that they did is an intentional perversion of civil law.

Or if you need to avoid the a-word because of the particular fruit that falls from that tree when shaken, just look at predatory towing.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#332

Post by [deleted] »

WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #323
potato3732842 wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I hate the cops I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone.

> I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone Arbitration is done by the NYC Dept of Environmental Protection. While it is unknown whether their workers are white collar, no evidence of snoot is manifested.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#333

Post by matsemann »

josephcsible wrote: post #313
matsemann wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about blatantly ignoring traffic laws by parking illegally in the cycle lanes, forcing cyclists to use the road and be an annoyance to you? I think lots of drivers have a blind spot for their own traffic violations, because all statistics I've ever seen points to drivers breaking the law more often. And when they do, the consequences are also much greater.

I think that's the base rate fallacy, and that you only see more drivers break the law because there's so many more drivers in general. My estimate would be that I see about 100 good drivers for every driver breaking the law, but only about 5 good cyclists for every cyclist breaking the law. And another part of what makes it unfair is the disparity of enforcement. I see illegally parked cars with tickets under their…

The fallacy here is probably your confirmation bias. Due to motonormativity and you being in the in-group, you notice cyclist mistakes and ignore driver mistakes.

For instance, a Danish study showing that 14 % of cyclists violate traffic laws when there is lacking infrastructure, but only 5 % when it's present. Compared to 66 % of motorists breaking some law. (Yes, if you ever go above the speed limit you have broken the traffic law just as much as the cyclists that grinds your gears. How many drivers speed in the highway each day, I wonder)

https://electrek.co/2024/01/11/cars-or-bikes-surprising-resu...

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#334

Post by kennywinker »

welshwelsh wrote: post #326
kennywinker wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is probably true, but since the law doesn’t punish everyone equally it means that enforcing the law equally is oppression.

It does punish everyone equally, if everyone pays the same fine. Some people having more ability to pay does not make the law unjust. I think it's important to remember that money represents debt. When someone commits a crime, they owe a debt to society. But if they have money, that means society owes a debt to them, so when they pay the fine it balances out. The system isn't perfect but the idea is that if someone m…

If I make $10/hour and you take $100 from me you’ve taken away 10 hours of my labour. If I make $600 an hour and you take $100 from me you’ve taken away 10min of my labour.

The $100 is equal but the impact is not. Fines are penalties, they don’t represent the cost of something - and a fixed fine is an un-equal penalty.

Your analogy makes some sense, but since wealth and contribution to society aren’t actually linked in reality - only in theory - I can’t get behind it. The wealthiest people in reality are parasites, not those who contribute the most. Owners not builders, CEOs not scientists, money managers not teachers.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#335

Post by bob_theslob646 »

potato3732842 wrote: post #316
bob_theslob646 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of NYC has cameras. The timestamp and location data from those can be linked. You could also have multiple references to validate via crowdscoring. You can also find people who are bad actors to decentivize them from mass reporting.

a) They won't use AI to fact check reports submitted when those reports stand to make them money. b) They can't/wont use the dragnet for daily petty revenue enforcement because then people will complain about it and it'll get reigned in and they won't be able to use it for that and all the other things people don't want them using it for.

>a) They won't use AI to fact check reports submitted when those reports stand to make them money.

They may not, but an outside vendor will. Most munis in the US usually have an outside party process their parking tickets

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#336

Post by josephcsible »

potato3732842 wrote: post #317
josephcsible wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What I’d like to see is hard separation of roads and bike lanes. That's a great idea, as long as the hard separation goes both ways with bikes no longer being allowed in car lanes.

If you can keep up with traffic and behave like traffic on a given road then I see no reason not to let you mingle with traffic. Yes this means you can drive a scissor lift or mobility scooter in stop and go rush hour crap. Whatever, I guess that's fine.

> If you can keep up with traffic

The biggest problem I have with cyclists on the road is that they almost always ride where they can't keep up with traffic.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#337

Post by samtho »

orthoxerox wrote: post #226
samtho wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A motor vehicle cannot receive a citation. If law enforcement cannot ID the driver as a particular individual when the infraction or crime occurred, a citation should not be issued.

Why not issue it to the owner of the vehicle?

The owner of the vehicle may not be the one driving it.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#338

Post by georgeburdell »

samtho wrote: post #219
georgeburdell wrote: post #87

Wish my California city had this attitude that you can report people via an app. So many offenses “run with the driver”, i.e. they will not prosecute unless a cop sees it happening and positively identifies the driver. They won’t even prosecute red light running from a video with the license plate clearly visible.

A motor vehicle cannot receive a citation. If law enforcement cannot ID the driver as a particular individual when the infraction or crime occurred, a citation should not be issued.

Yes, that is the rationale, even though in the specific case I cite, said red light runner caused an accident and left their insurance info and produced a driver’s license. The police don’t care.

It doesn’t have to be like that. Why does New York not need to ID the driver to cite for idling? “The owner of the vehicle may not be the one driving it.”

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#340

Post by captainregex »

welshwelsh wrote: post #324
pjc50 wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a general problem we've had iterations of in Edinburgh lately: - traffic designers lay out road - there is nowhere for delivery trucks to park, or extremely limited parking - this is justified by a lengthy set of arguments about other road users - deliveries still need to be made - truck parks in bus lane, cycle lane, or on the pedestrian paving (cracking slabs!) - everyone is now mad with each other, on the…

The fact that there is no truck parking is not an excuse for trucks to park in the bike lane or on the sidewalk. If an area doesn't support trucks, then deliveries need to be made without trucks. That means parking the truck far away and using a hand truck to make the delivery on foot using the sidewalks. The shipping companies can either eat the cost, pass it on to consumers or refuse to deliver to those areas.

ah yes. “park far away and simply walk 300 pounds of groceries to be stocked at the only corner store for miles” is a very clean and simple solution only you were smart enough to think of. There definitely aren’t hills or ruts making this impossible because everyone lives in perfectly paved suburbia and I’ve always heard tell of this obvious laziness of checks notes the men and women who actually deliver your prime packages at 4AM.
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