I would never use this because it's a subscription, but I do want to commend you for making it. Bluetooth's terrible two-way quality is a pet peeve of mine.
Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
331–340 of 356 posts
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why is Bluetooth so bad? This, plus the literal second of latency to my car's speakers. All these problems are solved by headphones with proprietary wireless dongles and they work great, so why can't Bluetooth incorporate those improvements so we can get them on other devices than desktop PCs?
Also, wireless subwoofers (that come on many consumer TV speaker systems these days) don't have this latency problem either. You just plug them in and they sync to the system and work transparently. They can't have any noticeable latency, or else the bass would be out-of-sync with either the rest of the audio, or if they slowed down the audio to account for latency, then all the sound would be out-of-sync with the vi…
The bass can be sent with a lower bitrate since the output signal is low frequency anyways.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#333There are other apps out there that do this e.g. ToothFairy https://c-command.com/blog/2024/03/06/toothfairy-2-8-4/
Thanks
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#334Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well "internal microphone" would be any other that's not the one of the Bluetooth headset you're using in the call. You can use high quality codecs with Bluetooth to listen, but when you use Bluetooth headset as a microphone, it switches to the "headset profile", that has greatly reduced bandwidth and a simpler codec, hence reducing the quality of sound in both directions. You can very clearly hear the bandwidth diff…
> I've heard that some people use headsets that aren't bluetooth, like the Jabra or Plantronics that are made for call centers, where you connect the headset base directly to the laptop. They seem to have also an incredible connection range, but they are very pricey so I haven't bought one for testing. Just get a cheap gaming headset. Pretty much all wireless gaming headsets also have perfectly fine quality for two-w…
All wireless gaming headsets that I've seen are Bluetooth.
What I've seen from some of them (or even some headsets that aren't "gaming") is "Gaming Mode", that usually means that they either use a low latency codec like aptX Low Latency, or reduce the buffers in the connection or something like that. That's also useful to reduce latency when watching videos or TV.
But once you switch to headset mode, you're back to the low quality mode every Bluetooth headset uses.
Meanwhile, as I cannot justify (to myself) the $350 expense, I'm using a $65 1More Sonoflow headset that works great for me and also have aptX codecs.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#335This is really a Bluetooth issue. The same happens with any headphones that have a mic on any OS. When Bluetooth mode is switched from Headphones to Headset (with mic), only much lower quality audio codes are used. Does anyone know if Bluetooth 6 adds support for higher quality codes for Headset? It's a big issue, in my opinion.
Bluetooth 5.2 was supposed to fix this issue. Indeed, my S22 phone with Jabra Elite 8s sounds great in calls.
MacBooks newer than 2023 SHOULD have better call quality. They have Bluetooth 5.3¹. Can anybody confirm this? I have been meaning to try pairing my earbuds with a floor model at a store and testing audio quality but's only to satisfy a curiosity for me.
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Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#336"you want to hear from your AirPods but be heard from your internal microphone" I wish all people would know this, I have CTO coaching sessions and when people attend with AirPods microphones, 60minutes is such a drain because of the bad mic quality of AirPods - and people seem not to realize this.
Usually, if I feel this, it means I have to get my AirPods cleaned (do it at the store, it's worth it). I have, subjectively, always felt that clean AirPods blow the Mac mic out of the water.
When using two way Bluetooth the bitrate drops sharply. No amount of cleaning can solve this.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
Understandable, but in that case what's the value of the utility posted here?
It just automates the manual workaround: It tells your system to use another mic, not the bluetooth one, so that the bluetooth headphones go back to listen-only mode and doesn't have to operate in its inferior full-duplex mode. So you'd use the headphones only for hearing, and your computer's internal mic (or another external mic, like a webcam's or a standalone USB one) does the recording input. I do that for all my…
Thanks for the info. And I fully agree about the pricing; that's just dumb.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
It was a Bluetooth issue years ago. Now it's only an Apple issue where it can't use a more decent codec. On Linux you can choose the mSBC codec and get decent two-way quality on a modern headset.
> It was a Bluetooth issue years ago It still is, mSBC is really not that good, plus all things considered reasons go beyond just the codec, see my nearby comment: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41705258 Switching to "2x half-duplex" on both ends is really the best thing. I hate it that you can't separately select audio input and output in iOS.
The macOS utility Audio MIDI Setup allows you to pick separate devices for this and it also lets you separate the device for system sounds from the device for other sounds.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#339Earlier quoted context omitted.
Internal microphone being what? The laptop or the phone? These have absolute shit input when sitting relatively far away on the desk or pocket. In my own experience, AirPods offer the absolute best microphones for zoom calls, other than professional-level equipment.
Well "internal microphone" would be any other that's not the one of the Bluetooth headset you're using in the call. You can use high quality codecs with Bluetooth to listen, but when you use Bluetooth headset as a microphone, it switches to the "headset profile", that has greatly reduced bandwidth and a simpler codec, hence reducing the quality of sound in both directions. You can very clearly hear the bandwidth diff…
> You can very clearly hear the bandwidth difference if you connect to a Zoom call using your Bluetooth headset both for listening and as a microphone, and then switching the microphone to the one in your laptop while someone is talking. I guess that any other software will work, but it's the one I use in the office.
Maybe this isn’t a problem if you are within the Apple ecosystem, or maybe Apple has solved this problem if you are within their ecosystem (AirPods + Apple laptop)? Or maybe I have terrible hearing. Because no, I can’t hear the difference. It’s actually crisper and clearer with AirPods.
> I usually have a high quality microphone on my desk (an AT2020, but you don't need to go that far, I already had it) and use my headset just for listening. But it might not work if you have to talk away from your desk.
A professional grade external microphone (that is NOT an internal mic) is going to sound better. This has nothing to do with Bluetooth.
Re: Show HN: A macOS app to prevent sound quality degradation on AirPods
#340Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well "internal microphone" would be any other that's not the one of the Bluetooth headset you're using in the call. You can use high quality codecs with Bluetooth to listen, but when you use Bluetooth headset as a microphone, it switches to the "headset profile", that has greatly reduced bandwidth and a simpler codec, hence reducing the quality of sound in both directions. You can very clearly hear the bandwidth diff…
> You can very clearly hear the bandwidth difference if you connect to a Zoom call using your Bluetooth headset both for listening and as a microphone, and then switching the microphone to the one in your laptop while someone is talking. I guess that any other software will work, but it's the one I use in the office. Maybe this isn’t a problem if you are within the Apple ecosystem, or maybe Apple has solved this prob…
I was talking about my combination of hardware, but I can do that with the integrated microphone in my MacBook and I'll hear the difference too. I can't comment much on Apple Bluetooth devices as Apple hides any codec information: they don't say which codecs and profiles are supported on their devices, and they've removed connection information in their OS, so I have no idea. But from what I've seen online, it's been problematic even for AirPods + Macbook users [0]
I haven't tested with any AirPods, and I don't know if they do non-standard things, but I've tested with a multitude of Bluetooth headsets and adapters, of different brands and supported codecs and all do the same thing.
This is because different codecs are only supported in the A2DP profile that's unidirectional. Once you use the microphone it needs to switch to the headset profile (HSP)or the hands-free profile (HFP).
HSP is very low quality in both directions, using a very low bitrate PCM encoding. Regular HFP is a bit better, also low bitrate PCM, 8khz sampling rate, but no good. HFP from version 1.6 supports a mono channel SBC encoded but in a 16khz sampling rate. Better but not great at all.
There's also a pair of codecs (FastStream, AptX LL) that support a duplex channel to send microphone audio back in good quality, but device support is not great.
And theoretically Bluetooth 5.2 with LE Audio supports Isochronous Channels, but I have no idea what hardware supports that.
So: Bluetooth audio is a mess. You need to mix and match a combination of standards and codec support in your computer hardware, your computer OS, your phone hardware, your phone OS, your headphones... quite a party.
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0: https://old.reddit.com/r/airpods/comments/k3kosn/m1_mac_owners_is_airpod_mic_quality_improved_on/