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Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

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Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#321

Post by smm11 »

madaxe_again wrote: post #230
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #53

Thank you for posting this, it reaffirms what I've been thinking for so long. There are many opportunities to retrofit old systems of all types with modern low-cost embedded technologies. Around 2019 or so I was approached by an engineer who had a small business retrofitting very old machine tools with modern motion controls. Think very large lathes and planers. The problem they had was that in order to get these sys…

Yup. I live on a river. We flooded catastrophically in 2019, which made me suddenly care about the government’s network of river level meters. Turns out, they abandoned most of them in 2008, as it was the local council who were meant to maintain them, but they couldn’t afford it - a chat with the president revealed they’d been paying €15k a year for each station to maintain it and they’d cost about €100k each. I went…

Next you can hook up an abandoned nuke silo, right?

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#322

Post by MisterTea »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #53

Thank you for posting this, it reaffirms what I've been thinking for so long. There are many opportunities to retrofit old systems of all types with modern low-cost embedded technologies. Around 2019 or so I was approached by an engineer who had a small business retrofitting very old machine tools with modern motion controls. Think very large lathes and planers. The problem they had was that in order to get these sys…

I do retrofits and I'll just assume the equipment he was using didn't have an analog encoder option or was ignorant of such equipment (likely using some cheap hobby level CNC thing.) I've worked with a few motion control systems such as ACS and Aerotech and they provide inputs for just about every encoder type imaginable. I retrofitted a CNC with 1500W 90V servo motors with analog resolvers using an Aerotech system, zero mechanical upgrades.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#323

Post by mattgrice »

red369 wrote: post #211
ryukoposting wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I see some parallels with the aftermarket for old cars. Holley's entire catalog is "here's a thing that'll modernize your 1960s engine without replacing the whole damn engine" This kind of thing is a low-volume, low-margin business by nature. It's those kinds of businesses that the megalomaniacs of our field tend to ignore. There are people with needs, and money they are willing to exchange for a solution to…

I once expected an aftermarket industry to pop-up to hybridize old cars. Old rear-wheel drive manual cars sound easiest. Generator attached to the flywheel instead of the starter motor, and then find some way to squeeze a drive motor by the rear diff (probably more complicated, but surely not impossible). I thought something might pop up once companies like Bosch started making generic e-axles for manufacturers to us…

In the US RWD manual cars have been exclusively sport/GT for decades. They aren't cheap and a hybrid swap and/or daily driving miles would destroy their value.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#324

Post by aidenn0 »

somenameforme wrote: post #196
semi-extrinsic wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Appreciate the good answer. Out of curiosity, ofder of magnitude how much would a person need to be bowling to get good enough that choice of shoe matters?

If you mean bowling shoe vs non-bowling shoe (as opposed to exact brand/type of bowling shoe), then they matter a lot even for a complete beginner. In a normal throw you're going to have a bit of momentum moving up to the lane and then release. You need to slide on your feet when you do this. In this [1] video go frame by frame at 12 seconds (or any time he bowls), you'll see his left foot in particular slide several…

Is Troup bowling without using the thumbhole? That was a no-no when I learned bowling, with conventional wisdom being it would put a ceiling on your performance.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#325

Post by HeyLaughingBoy »

MisterTea wrote: post #322
HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #53

Thank you for posting this, it reaffirms what I've been thinking for so long. There are many opportunities to retrofit old systems of all types with modern low-cost embedded technologies. Around 2019 or so I was approached by an engineer who had a small business retrofitting very old machine tools with modern motion controls. Think very large lathes and planers. The problem they had was that in order to get these sys…

I do retrofits and I'll just assume the equipment he was using didn't have an analog encoder option or was ignorant of such equipment (likely using some cheap hobby level CNC thing.) I've worked with a few motion control systems such as ACS and Aerotech and they provide inputs for just about every encoder type imaginable. I retrofitted a CNC with 1500W 90V servo motors with analog resolvers using an Aerotech system,…

I'm going to forget some details, but he was not using hobby level CNC products. I still have a Kollmorgen AKD motion controller that he sent me as a test bench. Most of the old tools were using 0-10V sawtooth analog outputs for motor position and, IIRC, their preferred controllers didn't support that. The initial version of the box I made took that 0-10V and pretended to be a resolver so the AKD could control the motor.

Like I said, I don't remember all his design decisions, but they wanted to retain the original position sensors.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#326

Post by MisterTea »

HeyLaughingBoy wrote: post #325
MisterTea wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do retrofits and I'll just assume the equipment he was using didn't have an analog encoder option or was ignorant of such equipment (likely using some cheap hobby level CNC thing.) I've worked with a few motion control systems such as ACS and Aerotech and they provide inputs for just about every encoder type imaginable. I retrofitted a CNC with 1500W 90V servo motors with analog resolvers using an Aerotech system,…

I'm going to forget some details, but he was not using hobby level CNC products. I still have a Kollmorgen AKD motion controller that he sent me as a test bench. Most of the old tools were using 0-10V sawtooth analog outputs for motor position and, IIRC, their preferred controllers didn't support that. The initial version of the box I made took that 0-10V and pretended to be a resolver so the AKD could control the mo…

Ah, that sounds like something really weird then. Haven't seen 0-10V sawtooth signals for encoder output though Ive seen 0-10V for laser infarometers and other distance sensors.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#328

Post by Scoundreller »

red369 wrote: post #211
ryukoposting wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I see some parallels with the aftermarket for old cars. Holley's entire catalog is "here's a thing that'll modernize your 1960s engine without replacing the whole damn engine" This kind of thing is a low-volume, low-margin business by nature. It's those kinds of businesses that the megalomaniacs of our field tend to ignore. There are people with needs, and money they are willing to exchange for a solution to…

I once expected an aftermarket industry to pop-up to hybridize old cars. Old rear-wheel drive manual cars sound easiest. Generator attached to the flywheel instead of the starter motor, and then find some way to squeeze a drive motor by the rear diff (probably more complicated, but surely not impossible). I thought something might pop up once companies like Bosch started making generic e-axles for manufacturers to us…

I was thinking of a “feature” on manuals that ran electrical and accessory-belt stuff full blast during engine braking.

The best time to run your a/c or turn the seat warmers: when you’re trying to expel energy.

Would give you some extra braking without heating up the engine and take a small load off your brakes.

That or turn any vehicle into a mild plug-in hybrid for all electrical loads and flywheel the alternator until that time. Gasoline-powered generators are not very efficient.

Might get a few percent extra efficiency without having to touch anything mechanical.

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#329

Post by Scoundreller »

red369 wrote: post #211
ryukoposting wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I see some parallels with the aftermarket for old cars. Holley's entire catalog is "here's a thing that'll modernize your 1960s engine without replacing the whole damn engine" This kind of thing is a low-volume, low-margin business by nature. It's those kinds of businesses that the megalomaniacs of our field tend to ignore. There are people with needs, and money they are willing to exchange for a solution to…

I once expected an aftermarket industry to pop-up to hybridize old cars. Old rear-wheel drive manual cars sound easiest. Generator attached to the flywheel instead of the starter motor, and then find some way to squeeze a drive motor by the rear diff (probably more complicated, but surely not impossible). I thought something might pop up once companies like Bosch started making generic e-axles for manufacturers to us…

> Generator attached to the flywheel instead of the starter motor, and then find some way to squeeze a drive motor by the rear diff (probably more complicated, but surely not impossible).

Some vehicles have this as a “battery starter generator” where the “hybrid” functionality is entirely on the accessory belt.

https://www.bosch.com/stories/48v-hybrid-battery/

https://hackaday.com/2025/01/24/bosch-starter-motor-freed-fr...

Re: Show HN: I replaced a $120k bowling center system with $1,600 in ESP32s

#330

Post by Scoundreller »

nativeit wrote: post #298
tonyedgecombe wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's just lack of competitive pressure. I bet if you investigate you will find there are only a couple of suppliers that have the bowling alley market sewn up between them.

You’d die on the back of unreliable operation and relatively high maintenance. A DIY system built off of cheap ESP32s is never going to be reliable enough. The system as described above is the sort of thing I would happily operate for myself, but would never attempt to sell as a product. Anyone who’s tried to hold together a few dozen ESP32-powered IoT devices will likely attest—they’re very impressive for their cost…

> but hardly reliable on the scale of years.

I’ve had similar experiences with “enterprise”-grade hardware.

But sometimes the “price” isn’t just the hardware, but also having someone on-call 24/7 to support and possibly fly-out to investigate within X hours.

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