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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#321

Post by potato3732842 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #141
ffsm8 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was was more common around the world. Not just with parking though, but everything in the context of cars. Like letting the police install a permanent speed trap on your property or even pay for the privilege of them doing so. I'd bet that'd curb a lot of speeding in short order

There's no need for violence. In fact, the capital outlay would be inefficient. If you want to curb speeding, the solution looks much the same: Pay reporters some portion of the fines collected from the speeder. You will very quickly see a cottage industry of Internet connected dashcams and on-board AI solutions spring up, because it's practically free money if you drive safely yourself for long enough. Pretty soon n…

>There's no need for violence.

Then what what underpins the fines?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#322

Post by potato3732842 »

ffsm8 wrote: post #291
raxxorraxor wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Peasant bounty hunting really concludes the picture of a nation slowly failing under applause and cheers.

Phrased like that, it's indeed problematic. But you should keep in mind that speeding is 1. A safety hazard 2. Causes high noise pollution 3. Measurably increases air pollution Under these circumstances I feel like a citizen driven enforcement for the law is not quite bad as you are portraying it. I would even call it apploudable, because they increase the quantity of life for everyone in their neighborhood.

The problem here is the anonymity for the tipster. Like if you can't defend your actions by putting your name to them are they actions worth taking?

The guy who reports one person for driving 100mph over the limit can and ought to sleep soundly knowing society more or less agrees with his actions.

The guy who reports 100 people for going 1mph over the limit ought to be be worried. His actions are not something society generally thinks is a good thing.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#323

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

potato3732842 wrote: post #311
alphan0n wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such considerations have been accounted for. [0] > Exceptions include, but are not limited to, when an idling on-road medium/heavy-duty vehicle is: Stuck in traffic or otherwise required to remain motionless. Performing maintenance tasks or powering an auxiliary function or apparatus, such as a refrigeration unit or lift, requiring power from the primary motive engine. [0] https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/…

As much as I hate the cops I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone.

> I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone

Arbitration is done by the NYC Dept of Environmental Protection. While it is unknown whether their workers are white collar, no evidence of snoot is manifested.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#324

Post by welshwelsh »

pjc50 wrote: post #263
captainregex wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

spoken like a person who’s never had to load/unload a truck before

This is a general problem we've had iterations of in Edinburgh lately: - traffic designers lay out road - there is nowhere for delivery trucks to park, or extremely limited parking - this is justified by a lengthy set of arguments about other road users - deliveries still need to be made - truck parks in bus lane, cycle lane, or on the pedestrian paving (cracking slabs!) - everyone is now mad with each other, on the…

The fact that there is no truck parking is not an excuse for trucks to park in the bike lane or on the sidewalk.

If an area doesn't support trucks, then deliveries need to be made without trucks. That means parking the truck far away and using a hand truck to make the delivery on foot using the sidewalks.

The shipping companies can either eat the cost, pass it on to consumers or refuse to deliver to those areas.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#325

Post by nashashmi »

bluescrn wrote: post #41

Milking motorists is very profitable. Stopping more problematic crime, not so much. So we end up with anarcho-tyranny, where 'real' crime is policed poorly, if at all - but loads of resources and tech are deployed aggressively policing+punishing mostly-law-abiding people for the most minor of infractions.

That’s a false comparison. Giving out tickets is a civil law violation. Combating crime is a different matter.

You can criminally cheat civil laws as well at which point it becomes a criminal offense. But the treatment remains mostly civil instead of criminal.

If you want more policing for criminal offenses, then officers need to be solely designated for those offenses. Right now they are bogged down with civil matters.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#326

Post by welshwelsh »

kennywinker wrote: post #297
meepmorp wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

poor people idling their engines pollute just as much - or maybe more, depending on average vehicle age, etc. - as rich ones, and poor people are much more likely to suffer the negative consequences of that pollution

That is probably true, but since the law doesn’t punish everyone equally it means that enforcing the law equally is oppression.

It does punish everyone equally, if everyone pays the same fine. Some people having more ability to pay does not make the law unjust.

I think it's important to remember that money represents debt. When someone commits a crime, they owe a debt to society. But if they have money, that means society owes a debt to them, so when they pay the fine it balances out.

The system isn't perfect but the idea is that if someone makes a big contribution to society, like by practicing medicine or creating new technology, society's debt to that person shouldn't be cancelled out by a minor offense like a parking violation. But if they aren't contributing much, then breaking the rules could make them into a net negative.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#327

Post by aspenmayer »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #274
pjc50 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> See my other comments on eg the runaway success of the False Claims Act Could you link some examples of such comments because I can't find them, please? > Or just consider the class action lawsuit and whether you think it fills a valuable role in society. This is an odd one. They are extremely rare in the UK, but in practice I think we have better consumer protection because it's handled through ordinary politics a…

I had a discussion with gametorch about this topic where I mention the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak. His comments got flagged, but I think he laid his assumptions and concern for the downstream effects on US culture bare, which is commendable. I'll cite some relevant news articles since finding the exact link is proving tough. [1]: https://www.justice.gov/archives/opa/pr/biogen-inc-agrees-pa... " Biogen…

> I had a discussion with gametorch about this topic where I mention the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak. His comments got flagged, but I think he laid his assumptions and concern for the downstream effects on US culture bare, which is commendable. I'll cite some relevant news articles since finding the exact link is proving tough.

This is the post to which you mention Bawduniak in reply to gametorch:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44349951

Algolia doesn't seem to let you search for some comments, not sure if [dead] or [flagged][dead] show up there. I found this via your comments link from your profile. I also have showdead enabled on my HN profile, which is necessary to see these comments on the comment page for a HN submission, but not to view them via a direct link iiuc.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#328

Post by olyjohn »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #271
ryandrake wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I would submit that there is the danger that people might want to keep a bad law if they continue to make money by snitching. In fact, money is the exact wrong incentive for this sort of thing. Think bigger. If the activity were really a money-maker, then it will inevitably be scaled and industrialized. A cottage industry of snitching would spring up. If that industry got sufficiently wealthy and politically powerf…

This is exactly the point, yes. You can get arbitrarily close to 100% crime detection rates with any law where there is a financial incentive for private entities to invest in this kind of infrastructure. The example I like to use is littering. If I lived near a high traffic area, and there was a $200 fine, $100 payable to the first successful reporter, you'd better believe I would invest in some webcams and some sof…

I'll take a little litter on the streets over mass surveillance and cameras everywhere identifying me everywhere I go. Because it never fucking stops at just litter. Pretty soon all that lovely data about who is where at what time gets sold, just easily tied into a little API, and the developer gets a few bucks of kick back. Gotta support the developer, right? This is just spyware for the real world shrouded in something that appears to be a good thing. Fuck off and no thanks, this is why we can't trust anything.

Besides, we don't have anything like this now, and I'm not walking through trash in the city I live in. If you have trash everywhere, you have other problems.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#329

Post by gorbachev »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #210
gorbachev wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York City doesn't do this for "even the slightest infractions at all times". The idling regulations are based on real harm, and the reporting requirements include things like recording video to prove that the car you're reporting didn't start idling in the last 5 seconds, but has, in fact, been doing that for 3 minutes or longer, or 1 minute or longer adjacent to a school. More info here: https://www.nyc.gov/site…

> And, yes, I would really, really want to live in a society where unnecessary idling is not allowed I would really, really want to live in a society where we aren't being monitored by cameras for every single minute of every day the moment we step outside our homes

You are not being monitored for every single minute of every day the moment you step outside your home, unless you idle your car regularly.

Get a grip.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#330

Post by amanaplanacanal »

carlosjobim wrote: post #320
amanaplanacanal wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, even without a financial incentive, I've thought about getting a dashcam to record the fuckheads "rolling coal" in my city and reporting them. Some behavior is so anti social that yes, it should be reported.

Why not go into the rough neighborhoods and report the people who are threatening the lives and health of people? You can even join the police force if you wish to work effectively against anti social behaviour.

I would guess the folks having their lives and property threatened are already reporting that, if they think the police will help them. If they won't, I'm not sure how me adding to the reports is going to help.
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