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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#311

Post by potato3732842 »

alphan0n wrote: post #269
garyfirestorm wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it loses nuance. If it was a meat truck trying to maintain temperature of the items while being stuck in a delivery paper work - now potentially being fined for keeping the meat at right temp!

Such considerations have been accounted for. [0] > Exceptions include, but are not limited to, when an idling on-road medium/heavy-duty vehicle is: Stuck in traffic or otherwise required to remain motionless. Performing maintenance tasks or powering an auxiliary function or apparatus, such as a refrigeration unit or lift, requiring power from the primary motive engine. [0] https://dec.ny.gov/environmental-protection/…

As much as I hate the cops I actually trust a cop to be a more impartial arbiter of what does and doesn't fit that definition than some snooty white collar worker who just has a snitching app on their phone.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#312

Post by potato3732842 »

mhuffman wrote: post #155
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrup…

You're actually better off if it's a crime because then you can force the issue to go through a court, be made public record, etc.

A lot of civil penalties carry fines in excess of what you get for a first offense for a violent but not professional criminality type crime. It's absolutely insane. NYC's idling laws are just the tip of the iceberg in this regard. And the fact that these are "civil" penalties means the due process requirements are basically nil and when they do exist (like they do for traffic infractions) they basically only exist so far as they need to to keep the racket going.

Like you'd be hard pressed to wind up with tens of thousands of of fines doing actual criminal stuff, they'd just throw you in jail. But a government official can notice (or be tipped off to) some violation then go look back at their info sources and decide unilaterally when the violation started and fine you for presumed months of violation and you often have no recourse but to sue.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#313

Post by josephcsible »

matsemann wrote: post #239
josephcsible wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Is there any actual rational reason for making such rules, or is it stemming from some annoyance from seeing cyclists in the road? It's from a combination of getting stuck behind cyclists going really slowly and with no opportunity to pass them, and from so much blatantly illegal behavior by them like running red lights without even slowing down.

What about blatantly ignoring traffic laws by parking illegally in the cycle lanes, forcing cyclists to use the road and be an annoyance to you? I think lots of drivers have a blind spot for their own traffic violations, because all statistics I've ever seen points to drivers breaking the law more often. And when they do, the consequences are also much greater.

I think that's the base rate fallacy, and that you only see more drivers break the law because there's so many more drivers in general. My estimate would be that I see about 100 good drivers for every driver breaking the law, but only about 5 good cyclists for every cyclist breaking the law. And another part of what makes it unfair is the disparity of enforcement. I see illegally parked cars with tickets under their wipers a lot, and it's fairly common to see drivers pulled over by the police for moving violations, but literally every single cyclist I've seen breaking the law has gotten away with it.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#314

Post by waffletower »

While a deeply problematic solution which pits citizens against each other, idling is also deeply problematic and awareness of the toxicity of internal combustion engines (ICE) needs to grow. While hardly a massive feedback loop, it is at least a bit tragic to see the growth of ICE idling during heatwaves encouraged in part by global warming and also the growth of smart phone usage in cars.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#315

Post by potato3732842 »

vineyardmike wrote: post #36

Within the last year or so, I discovered my city’s 311 app, which I’ve become addicted to. I don’t drive, so I’m always walking around the neighborhood, and got in the habit of always reporting graffiti, dumping, illegally parked cars, etc. This had inspired me to try and make a few apps for civic use, but I discovered that many of the accessible web tools for my city have rules against bots. For example, the city ma…

Have you ever even had limited conversed with the other people of your neighborhood to find out if they even agree with you? Maybe they think the cars are fine and like that the graffiti keeps the rent low.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#316

Post by potato3732842 »

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #181
wingspar wrote: post #177

In this age of generative AI, how would a someone defend against a maliciously AI generated/altered video report?

Most of NYC has cameras. The timestamp and location data from those can be linked. You could also have multiple references to validate via crowdscoring. You can also find people who are bad actors to decentivize them from mass reporting.

a) They won't use AI to fact check reports submitted when those reports stand to make them money.

b) They can't/wont use the dragnet for daily petty revenue enforcement because then people will complain about it and it'll get reigned in and they won't be able to use it for that and all the other things people don't want them using it for.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#317

Post by potato3732842 »

josephcsible wrote: post #125
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I’d like to see is hard separation of roads and bike lanes. As a cyclist, nothing but a line painted on the road makes me feel unsafe, as a driver it’s difficult to not get nervous when passing a cyclist in the lane, and culturally drivers are generally favored over cyclists which results in things like parking in bike lanes not being adequately enforced. All these things would be solved by bike lanes being full…

> What I’d like to see is hard separation of roads and bike lanes. That's a great idea, as long as the hard separation goes both ways with bikes no longer being allowed in car lanes.

If you can keep up with traffic and behave like traffic on a given road then I see no reason not to let you mingle with traffic.

Yes this means you can drive a scissor lift or mobility scooter in stop and go rush hour crap. Whatever, I guess that's fine.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#318

Post by potato3732842 »

casenmgreen wrote: post #254
globular-toast wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about constant monitoring of people, it's about cars. I'm all for constant monitoring of cars within towns. They bully and intimidate and generally ruin places for everyone else. There needs to be strong incentives for people to not drive cars right into cities, with appropriate alternatives, of course. I want to see much better parking on the outside of town with easy and safe travel to inside like light…

> This isn't about constant monitoring of people It seems to me it is a probe. If it is accepted for cars, then it moves on to people. Then it is used by ICE to pay rewards for handing over people Donald has decided are illegal.

My fear isn't that this will stop after the truck drivers, the immigrants, etc, etc, have all been harmed but before the people who peddled the policy

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#319

Post by potato3732842 »

Kbelicius wrote: post #284
casenmgreen wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This isn't about constant monitoring of people It seems to me it is a probe. If it is accepted for cars, then it moves on to people. Then it is used by ICE to pay rewards for handing over people Donald has decided are illegal.

This is called the slippery slope fallacy. It is a fallacy for a reason.

They always somehow run out of will to continue to harm people after those who can't resist have been harmed but right before the tech bros and out of touch white women who peddled and popularized the policy that lead to the harm start being on the receiving end of it all.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#320

Post by carlosjobim »

amanaplanacanal wrote: post #293
nandomrumber wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noticing a vehicle idling on a street isn’t the same thing as noticing a vehicle idling on a street, taking video evidence of it, reporting it and providing a copy of the video with the expectation of getting a cut of the fine. Is it?

Honestly, even without a financial incentive, I've thought about getting a dashcam to record the fuckheads "rolling coal" in my city and reporting them. Some behavior is so anti social that yes, it should be reported.

Why not go into the rough neighborhoods and report the people who are threatening the lives and health of people? You can even join the police force if you wish to work effectively against anti social behaviour.
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