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Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

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Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#31

Post by [deleted] »

corin_ wrote: post #11
iambateman wrote: post #9

Another commenter posted some JavaScript that runs to find the price floor. Wouldn't a system like this be subject to virtually everyone finding the lowest price almost immediately? Because I intuitively understand that there is a fixed price floor, it just feels wrong. What's weird is that I don't get this feeling when I'm bargaining with someone in person. Even if we're trying to find an agreeable price, I don't fe…

I think it's the fact that you know the price floor is pre-meditated. When you negotiate with someone you feel like you are both compromising, whereas in this case you know they've already decided what their fair price is, and are hoping you don't push hard enough to achieve it. Which may sometimes be the case in real negotiations, but they put a human face on it which makes it more friendly.

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#33

Post by ljf »

shaharsol wrote: post #19
corin_ wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's the fact that you know the price floor is pre-meditated. When you negotiate with someone you feel like you are both compromising, whereas in this case you know they've already decided what their fair price is, and are hoping you don't push hard enough to achieve it. Which may sometimes be the case in real negotiations, but they put a human face on it which makes it more friendly.

If you play with it enough, you'll see that it won't go down to the minimum in all cases. The algorithm will insist on what it analyzes the user will pay, and will prefer to lose the sale on account of saving its credibility for the long run. Also, this is just the beginning. It will get much wiser as we go.

I think the risk is that: 1. users will know the price is not correct, and even when they 'haggle' it down, they will feel that they are in some way being taken for a ride. 2. users will be left wondering if they could have paid less 3. users that don't haggle, and find out later will become a support cost, as they phone up to demand the price that their friend paid 4. users that don't haggle, but find out later, will simply feel ripped off, and will not return. ---- I think eBay handles this quite elegantly, with the 72 hour window for a response. Often I want something ASAP, and even though I know I can haggle, I'll pay the buy it now price rather than wait for a response. Alternatively I'll wait for a real person to get back. Knowing that someone is considering my offer is pleasing, as is their comments back sometimes, explaining why they can't meet the price I suggested, which can turn me into a customer at a slightly higher price if I like what they are selling. Automating this too much removes the interaction, and the feeling of achievement - if ever purchaser from a market store in Egypt knew what people had paid before, it would feel very different.

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#34

Post by higherpurpose »

I would just input the lowest number until it stops lowering the number, so I get the lowest price.

Suggestion to fix this: either slow the site needs to bargain 10+ times, so people get "bored" with trying to bargain for the lowest price (while still not seeming like a "bargaining gimmick" too much) or say you lower it 3 times in a row, but if I try the 4th time, it raises the price again, and maybe put a snarky message like "I see you're trying to bleed us dry, so let's start over" or whatever. But do these raises in a pretty random way. I figure this would have the effect of having people not want to try to bargain too many times to get the lower price, because they would be forced into "starting over". So they might just agree with the 2nd or 3rd bargain.

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#36

Post by drivingmenuts »

At some point, your demo asked me to think of your children, which seems to fall into a cultural stereotype.

On the internet, no one knows your a dog.

Or cares, really.

The larger point is: you invited me to think of your children, without giving a compelling reason why I should even care.

This is the internet - it's depersonalizing, anonymizing, delocalizing, and dehumanizing. Pretty much the antithesis of everything related to traditional haggling.

So, tell me again: who are these children, what do they look like, how old are they? If they're old enough to work, why aren't they, etc. If they're not cute, by my cultural standards which you have only a small chance of guessing, then what's up with that?

It's much easier to either drive a customer away or raise non-germane questions during a depersonalized haggling event. It's also way to easy to have those questions begin driving the conversation in the customer's mind.

Note: I'm from a culture where haggling over price is not the norm and I'm not a fan of it. YMMV where you are.

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#37

Post by chippy »

I like it.

How about this:

1) based on previous spending habits of a user on the site, and/or credit score, social media profile or a simple age, location profile, the shopkeeper (system) knows a rough geodemographics / personality of the user.

2) First price shown is variable depending on this algorithm. Some users who are poor will have cheaper prices. Richer ones, or users who like to spend time haggling will have higher ones. I've no idea if this is the best strategy - but some game theory and psychology of shopping will be used for the algorithm, you can work that out :)

3) User is able to purchase, or haggle.

4) Different users have different floors.

5) RNG - Sometimes a user will get a product for much less than the floor. They will feel as if their haggling got them a real bargain, because they really did! Sometimes the retailer will not sell the product unless they are making a larger margin than before. Retailers who use the system will feel as if they are making a real profit, because they really will be!

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#38

Post by drivingmenuts »

chippy wrote: post #37

I like it. How about this: 1) based on previous spending habits of a user on the site, and/or credit score, social media profile or a simple age, location profile, the shopkeeper (system) knows a rough geodemographics / personality of the user. 2) First price shown is variable depending on this algorithm. Some users who are poor will have cheaper prices. Richer ones, or users who like to spend time haggling will have…

Except for step three, I think you just described Amazon.com.

Amazon - I know they're fscking me, but they make it seem so reasonable, dammit.

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#39

Post by menriquez »

lucb1e wrote: post #28
menriquez wrote: post #23

dumb...pointless...the obvious strategy is just offer $1 until you reach the price floor.

> the obvious strategy is just offer $1 until you reach the price floor. Fair enough, but... > dumb...pointless... Really? Did you read the question "how likely are you to remember this shop?" below the experiment? Because I totally would remember this and am much more likely to return at a later time.

> Because I totally would remember this and am much more likely to return at a later time.

i would totally remember what a waste of my time it was, so yes in that sense you are right.

Re: Show HN: an online shop that bargains with you

#40

Post by DanielStraight »

Got sofa. Entered price of $800, less than half the original price, then came up to $1500.

"Why don't you make a move in my direction?"

I guess the Turing test remains to be passed.

Any kind of response like this makes it obvious the system is a lot less intelligent than it's pretending to be, which is a huge turn-off to me.

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