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Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

10xmanagement.com

31–40 of 80 posts

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you care to elaborate?

The reason artists have agents is so they can get work. Because there are more artists than paid work. Programmers are in such demand that one does not need for such thing. Thus, this kind of service popping up signals that there is so much frees money flowing around (the bubble) that people are looking for ways to grab a bunch and runaway. Let's be honest here. Aside from the ego stroking of having an agent, what va…

One of the nice things about having an agent in the movie business is that they can play the role of Bad Cop with the producers when needed.

This allows the talent to maintain good relations with the person signing the checks. Or at least the pretense of good relations, which is just as good for most purposes.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#32

"10x represents the best freelance programmers and designers" not to be too snooty, but couldn't they get one of their best design freelancers to give their site a bit of a makeover?

Or set encoding properly? The text of last quoted client has all kinds of escaping issues.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#33

I'd like to see this in the UK, i've always said one day i'd start that kind of agency. This is a great idea.

It exists! We are building a community at YunoJuno that provides all the support of a large company, but for people who choose to be freelance. We're not quite as gung-ho as these guys - and we're not offering to manage your career - that's your business - but we do want to support talented freelancers in the creative (design, ux, dev) community. www.yunojuno.com (Oh, and we're not charging you anything - we charge t…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#35
post #14
post #12

I have direct personal experience with 10x and I highly recommend them. I found them to help me with a significant employment/management need. 10x focused on finding the best solution and provided ongoing contact and advice through the whole process. I don't get anything by recommending them. I do believe fully in their business and value.

They helped you as an employer or an employee?

Yeah, a full story would better help to evaluate the value they provided you.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason artists have agents is so they can get work. Because there are more artists than paid work. Programmers are in such demand that one does not need for such thing. Thus, this kind of service popping up signals that there is so much frees money flowing around (the bubble) that people are looking for ways to grab a bunch and runaway. Let's be honest here. Aside from the ego stroking of having an agent, what va…

I have a friend, a Thiel fellow actually, who for personal reasons is no longer pursuing his project. He is extremely talented and creative, but, despite his credibility, ability and connections, he swears by these people because they take all the bullshit out of the equation and just let him focus on what he wants to do right now which is get paid the most money possible to work on the most interesting and intellect…

I'm not offended by this. At all. I'm happy your friend benefits from it.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#37

I'd like to see this in the UK, i've always said one day i'd start that kind of agency. This is a great idea.

It exists! We are building a community at YunoJuno that provides all the support of a large company, but for people who choose to be freelance. We're not quite as gung-ho as these guys - and we're not offering to manage your career - that's your business - but we do want to support talented freelancers in the creative (design, ux, dev) community. www.yunojuno.com (Oh, and we're not charging you anything - we charge t…

You're missing less web-centric dev skills.

Some suggestions: Haskell, C, Erlang, OCaml, C++.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#38
I sense a lot of negativity here. Engineers are not good at dealing with customers. They deal with the customers so engineers don't have to. They have people skills. They are good at dealing with people!

Can't you guys understand that?

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#39
I laid out something similar here on HN last summer and Atlay (of 10x) was one of the first to comment. (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4555165) As a longtime tech recruiter, what I find most valuable about the model is that it is much more geared towards helping tech pros focus on what they do best (code) and not have to worry about what they tend to do worst (handle the business side of their work, negotiate, etc.). I haven't switched my business into an agency model at this point as I think there are still a few kinks to be worked out.

Here is some recruiter-speak (what we are trained to say) that might make sense to some of the contractors out there or at least sound familiar. If you are working with a recruiter and you ask for $125/hr, and you feel that is a very fair market rate for the work you will be doing, and the recruiter is able to get the client to pay say $130/hr, chances are you won't care because you are getting your 125 and the recruiter is making almost nothing. So let's now say that the recruiter is an excellent negotiator and gets $150 - should you (as the coder) get more because the recruiter was able to negotiate a higher rate? At what point should the recruiter be rewarded for doing a good job negotiating? If the recruiter is getting $250 total and you are only at $125, surely you will feel slighted - but if $125 is the market rate for that skill, should the recruiter not be rewarded for the ability to negotiate and get a higher rate? I could argue both sides of this.

One way to alleviate part of this problem is to essentially split the difference. If you come to me asking for 125, let's say my standard cut is 10% (which is low, but this is just an example) - and anything I get above that 10% we split. So at 137.5, you are at 125 and I'm at 12.5 (10%). If I get the client up to 150, I get my 12.50 (10% of your 125) + 1/2 of the additional 12.50 (150-137.5) for a total of 18.75, while you get 131.25. This way the recruiter is rewarded for getting a higher rate, and the coder doesn't feel like a victim.

Unfortunately, most recruiters won't reveal the bill rate (paid by the company) to the coder or the coder's rate to the company, so all sides are in the dark except the middleman.

Almost all recruiting models are quite imperfect and have some really disturbing incentives for the recruiters (http://jobtipsforgeeks.com/2012/09/17/disrupt/). Transparency between all parties is something I am offering my candidates so they can use their best judgment as to whether my advice is clouded by a higher fee with one company over another. Transparency is the real key to solving many of the problems in the industry.

The agent model seems to be the right track, and hopefully we'll get it right some day.

Re: Show HN: Announcing 10x Management

#40
Something isn't sitting right with me about this. Let me explore (my gut may be wrong here)...

I agree that it's important for freelance engineers and designers to have some business help. Being a good "creator" doesn't necessarily mean you're good at negotiations, and while its an important skill, there is something nice about being able to focus on doing the work (and doing a good job) vs having to find the clients, negotiate the deals, handle payment, etc. That can be an unwelcome distraction for some people who aren't naturally good at it.

But that's why design/development studios exist. Even in a small shop - there's a guy who specs the project, a guy who negotiates the deal, a designer, and a developer (yes, there's often overlap in those roles). You pay a premium for the full-service of those distinct roles.

I think what's bothering me here is that these guys are perpetuating the notion that, literally, hiring a "celebrity"/"rock star" engineer/designer ("10xer") is something that folks should be paying a huge premium for. And that if you are that rock star, that you're so awesome that you need talent management (who deserves 15%). The premium here isn't for a support staff to help manage the project - the premium here is to get that celebrity development talent.

Not saying this is necessarily a bad thing - maybe it's an innovation that's much needed in the industry. But my gut is that they're spreading the celebrity-worship mentality of the entertainment industry to the software industry, and I'm not confident that's the right move.

It works in the entertainment industry because the link is much clearer -- you put Vinny Chase in your movie, it's going to do better than if you put in a no-name actor (all else being equal). Does that same thing work in the software industry?

Thoughts?

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