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Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

timelock.dev

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Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#31

Post by troymc »

lucb1e wrote: post #28
troymc wrote: post #17

Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light. Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its en…

> Inspired by the TOR network. Because it has such high delays? Basically revealing the information which the onion service or exit node encrypted for you only after, potentially, a few trips around the globe? That makes me think this can be achieved without spacecraft, by just having geographically distributed private keys (even just a few kilometers; you just need the light delays to dominate over processing delays…

I wrote that the proposed system was inspired by the TOR network, not that it literally uses the TOR network. To send a message across the TOR network, you wrap it in a bunch of layers of encryption, and then each TOR node removes one layer: that's the similar aspect.

Your other critiques are all valid. There's still a lower bound on the total time required for full decryption. I was just trying to show that that is possible.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#32

Post by ttyprintk »

dheera wrote: post #20
troymc wrote: post #17

Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light. Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its en…

> Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft I suppose, more practically, you could just put the private key in an envelope and bury it deep in a shipping container with a destination across the ocean. While in transit it's pretty damn hard to get to it.

There are a few geocaching approaches:

Sunken chest / mysterious treasure map

Beacon of high gamma radiation / undesirable to approach for many half lives

USB key in Jimmy Hoffas pocket

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#33

Post by lucb1e »

troymc wrote: post #31
lucb1e wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Inspired by the TOR network. Because it has such high delays? Basically revealing the information which the onion service or exit node encrypted for you only after, potentially, a few trips around the globe? That makes me think this can be achieved without spacecraft, by just having geographically distributed private keys (even just a few kilometers; you just need the light delays to dominate over processing delays…

I wrote that the proposed system was inspired by the TOR network, not that it literally uses the TOR network. To send a message across the TOR network, you wrap it in a bunch of layers of encryption, and then each TOR node removes one layer: that's the similar aspect. Your other critiques are all valid. There's still a lower bound on the total time required for full decryption. I was just trying to show that that is…

Not meant as critiques! And I did not assume it was using the Tor network, I understood the word "inspired" as you meant it. Clearly I need to work on my communication :(

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#34

Post by pjerem »

troymc wrote: post #17

Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light. Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its en…

The spacecraft should generate the key pairs itself once it landed and send the public keys to earth to be sure no human stole the private keys.

But, while fun, your idea is not that stupid.

If the spacecraft continuously generate key pairs, you could even avoid landing it and "just" throw it in some direction, Voyager style (if you can afford rebuilding some every few decades) or on some orbit in the solar system. You don’t have to pay for the landing tech.

I wouldn’t even be surprised that this could be viable economically. It doesn’t sound that much technologically difficult

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#35

Post by lucb1e »

ttyprintk wrote: post #32
dheera wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft I suppose, more practically, you could just put the private key in an envelope and bury it deep in a shipping container with a destination across the ocean. While in transit it's pretty damn hard to get to it.

There are a few geocaching approaches: Sunken chest / mysterious treasure map Beacon of high gamma radiation / undesirable to approach for many half lives USB key in Jimmy Hoffas pocket

My inner devil likes the "too dangerous to approach" idea :)

About the last idea, I had to look up that name:

> James Riddle Hoffa (born February 14, 1913; disappeared July 30, 1975; presumed dead July 30, 1982) was an American labor union leader who served as the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) from 1957 until 1971.

Do I read it correctly if I understand "Jimmy Hoffas pocket" to be one implementation example of "any disappeared person's pocket"? Or is the specific person, their role, or their era relevant?

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#37

Post by ttyprintk »

ttyprintk wrote: post #32
dheera wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft I suppose, more practically, you could just put the private key in an envelope and bury it deep in a shipping container with a destination across the ocean. While in transit it's pretty damn hard to get to it.

There are a few geocaching approaches: Sunken chest / mysterious treasure map Beacon of high gamma radiation / undesirable to approach for many half lives USB key in Jimmy Hoffas pocket

Drone delivers a capsule into an historic minefield / make a Great Power clear an area to find it

Sow the hex digits in one crop on top of another / wait until summer to see the visible difference

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#38

Post by troymc »

pjerem wrote: post #34
troymc wrote: post #17

Here's a way to encrypt something with an actual timelock, which works because physics. More specifically, it works because there is a maximum speed that information can travel through space: the speed of light. Step 1: Generate a large number of named public/private keypairs and put the private keys on a spacecraft. Also give the spacecraft a communication system and a long-lived RTG (an energy source getting its en…

The spacecraft should generate the key pairs itself once it landed and send the public keys to earth to be sure no human stole the private keys. But, while fun, your idea is not that stupid. If the spacecraft continuously generate key pairs, you could even avoid landing it and "just" throw it in some direction, Voyager style (if you can afford rebuilding some every few decades) or on some orbit in the solar system. Y…

These are all good improvements. Thanks!

My thinking now is that you could send the spacecraft out to Neptune and do a gravity-assist maneuver there, sending the spacecraft into a large orbit around the Sun, with a high perihelion.

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#39

Post by lucb1e »

Groxx wrote: post #27
lucb1e wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the lead pipe analogy. What's up with getting a metal pipe if you don't "agree to keep this secret"?

It's just one of many tools commonly used in the https://xkcd.com/538/ meme.

Oh it's a way of saying "killed", or at least that something inconvenient will happen for/to you. Got it

Re: Show HN: Timelock.dev – Send a secret into the future using timelock encryption

#40

Post by ttyprintk »

lucb1e wrote: post #35
ttyprintk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a few geocaching approaches: Sunken chest / mysterious treasure map Beacon of high gamma radiation / undesirable to approach for many half lives USB key in Jimmy Hoffas pocket

My inner devil likes the "too dangerous to approach" idea :) About the last idea, I had to look up that name: > James Riddle Hoffa (born February 14, 1913; disappeared July 30, 1975; presumed dead July 30, 1982) was an American labor union leader who served as the president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters (IBT) from 1957 until 1971. Do I read it correctly if I understand "Jimmy Hoffas pocket" to be one…

You’re correct: the fame of discovering Jimmy Hoffas burial is high in pop culture. Maybe as high as Hacker News finding a usb key timelock where only a vague area is given.
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