Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

keyboardconnect.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–40 of 111 posts

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#31

Post by robbrown451 »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

Any digital piano functions as a midi controller, and many of them have weighted keys. And there are a few "pure" midi controllers that have 88 weighted keys, such as the M-Audio Hammer 88 or StudioLogic SL88.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#32

Post by jerkstate »

Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological requirements that a machine originally built in the 1600s imposed.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#33

Post by booi »

jerkstate wrote: post #32
Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological…

The transition from unweighted to weighted is actually pretty big. I would have preferred to learn on a good weighted keyboard or real piano tbh.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#34

Post by udtravdu »

Congrats on shipping!

I would suggest recording the videos from the player's point of view. It adds a layer of abstraction to have to reverse the image when reading it as a student.

Unless you are also encouraging your students to learn to read a pianist from an audience's perspective.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#35

Post by solresol »

williamcotton wrote: post #19
Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

You can get MIDI keyboard with 88 weighted keys. Also, there are plenty of electric pianos, like the Wurlitzer or Rhodes, that have leas than 88 and only semi-weighted keys.

You can also get midi interfaces for cathedral organs; letting you use the organ console to control midi devices, and also letting midi devices control the pipe relays in the pipe organ.

Of course, whether you would want to use the OP's app in some giant cathedral is another question.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#36

Post by pouyarad_ »

jerkstate wrote: post #32
Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological…

I spent 10 years playing on a keyboard with unweighted keys and I'm rather certain it affected my desire to practice. The other large part was that my teacher did not spend much time on theory with me.

Also, when recitals came around it was a big shift to playing on a grand piano with real weighted keys, and that, coupled with the nerves of playing in front of an audience, often led to mistakes.

I think the weighted keys help you feel more physically connected to the instrument with more of your body. Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard.

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#37

Post by rrr_oh_man »

pouyarad_ wrote: post #36
jerkstate wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological…

I spent 10 years playing on a keyboard with unweighted keys and I'm rather certain it affected my desire to practice. The other large part was that my teacher did not spend much time on theory with me. Also, when recitals came around it was a big shift to playing on a grand piano with real weighted keys, and that, coupled with the nerves of playing in front of an audience, often led to mistakes. I think the weighted…

> Unweighted keys require the same involvement as typing on a computer keyboard.

…and who’d have any fun with that?

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#38

Post by crazygringo »

jerkstate wrote: post #32
Ferret7446 wrote: post #17

From what I've heard MIDI controllers are not good for learning piano. You really want weighted keys and a full 88 keys otherwise you won't learn the right habits or build finger strength. (I learned on a physical piano in person, so I can't speak personally about learning on a MIDI controller, but it sounds plausible to me.)

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological…

Weighted keys aren't about requirements from the 1600s, they're about being able to achieve an extremely wide and sensitive dynamic range.

Unweighted is fine if you're making synth sounds. And of course for understanding the things you've listed.

But you can't actually play emotionally expressive piano music on them -- not in the style of classical or jazz. If you tried to play the Moonlight Sonata first movement, it would sound terrible, because the dynamic shadings couldn't be done.

I'm not really sure how you've determined what "core skills" are. Sure, if your kids are only going to spend a couple years learning the very basics, and then move onto other things, then it's fine.

But the heart and soul of piano music is in the precise touch to generate the dynamic sensitivity. If you want them to learn how to be emotionally expressive through music, playing either classical or jazz, weighted keys are essential. It's not piano otherwise -- it's a synth.

(And going from unweighted to weighted isn't trivial. It's an entirely different muscle memory that needs to be developed. They're fundamentally different instruments.)

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#39

Post by blindriver »

crazygringo wrote: post #38
jerkstate wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my opinion (as a dad with kids learning piano, who learned piano as a kid) playing with 88 weighted keys is like learning to write cursive with a fountain pen - maybe artistically interesting, but doesn't matter for the core skills. My kids are learning on 61 key unweighted boards and they're learning melody, rhythm, notation, theory, and all of the things that are about music, not about the particular physiological…

Weighted keys aren't about requirements from the 1600s, they're about being able to achieve an extremely wide and sensitive dynamic range. Unweighted is fine if you're making synth sounds. And of course for understanding the things you've listed. But you can't actually play emotionally expressive piano music on them -- not in the style of classical or jazz. If you tried to play the Moonlight Sonata first movement, it…

Try playing Moonlight Sonata Third Movement on a synthesizer! The Third movement is one of the most incredibly intricate and brilliant piano pieces I’ve ever heard in my life!

Re: Show HN: A platform for remote piano lessons based on the Web MIDI API

#40

Post by JoshTriplett »

This sounds incredible, and I'd love to try it!

A few immediate thoughts:

As a student, I don't care about a two-sided platform (which is what it looks like you're trying to build). I want to sign up for vetted piano lessons through your site, and purchase a USB midi adapter that you recommend. As a short-term MVP, perhaps point people to a known-working adapter on a site with an affiliate program. Long-term you might consider finding a company willing to sell one white-label and put your logo and website on it, but that's a lot less important than everything else you're building so put it off for a while.

Also, for the first handful of lessons and for subsequent practice, it'd be awesome if you had automated, pre-recorded lessons available, to get the basics down, or to train things like reading sheet music at speed.

Post reply on HN