Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

rankedvote.co

31–40 of 326 posts

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#31

If I am not mistaken SurveyMonkey also has the option to create ranked-choice questions, no?

It allows you to ask the "ranking question" BUT it doesn't do the ranked-choice calculation with the results. So, in theory, you can use it to collect the votes, but you'll need to do the calculations by hand. I actually wrote an article on this exact thing as a bit of an SEO play: https://www.rankedvote.co/guides/applying-ranked-choice-voti...

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#32
Ranking the voting systems: STAR Voting > Approval Voting > Ranked Choice Voting > Plurality ("pick only one") voting.

Ranked Choice Voting is marginally better than plurality voting, but it has problems. The chief defect with Ranked Choice Voting is its non-monotonicity, whereby increasing your support for your genuine favorite can actually hurt their odds of winning. This may be what happened in Alaska [1].

STAR Voting is a slight modification to Score Voting, where you simply score each candidate and are not forced to rank them. You are given the discretion to give multiple candidates the same score if you so choose. STAR is highly expressive and simple to count: just sum the scores.

Approval Voting is appealing because of its simplicity. Both ballots and how they are counted would require only superficial changes versus plurality, such as changing the prompt from "Vote for only one" to "Vote for as many as you like." Approval has a good balance of utility and simplicity.

If we are going to invest time and effort into achieving voting reform, it would be a shame to spend that effort on RCV rather than superior alternatives.

[1] https://electionscience.org/commentary-analysis/rcv-fools-pa...

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#33
post #30

"How Ranked-Choice Voting elects extremists" https://psephomancy.medium.com/how-ranked-choice-voting-elec... This article recommends instead a STAR voting system which is still simple to implement and understand while not electing extremists in some cases. I would be sad to see NYC and others turn to ranked choice without considering all the alternatives.

This is quite reductive and ridiculous, people don't measure their difference from a candidate on a single axis and vote for the person with the smallest distance.

Don't they? Isn't that axis just "how much they like the candidate"?

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#34
post #5

Hi! I actually made a similar site for my own purposes - https://poller.io - and I've been using it with friends for a while. One interesting finding. I was expecting that Instant Runoff would be the method we all preferred. I also included plurality winner, Borda Count and the Condorcet winner (if there was one) in the list of results. After using this with friends for decisions, I realized that a lot of choices tha…

Did you ever try star voting?

No, but only because I have been too lazy to update the code.

If I had more free time, I would probably add Star and Approval and then try to use Star with my group of friends. Maybe OP can save me the trouble by adding to his site ! :)

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#35
post #32

Ranking the voting systems: STAR Voting > Approval Voting > Ranked Choice Voting > Plurality ("pick only one") voting. Ranked Choice Voting is marginally better than plurality voting, but it has problems. The chief defect with Ranked Choice Voting is its non-monotonicity, whereby increasing your support for your genuine favorite can actually hurt their odds of winning. This may be what happened in Alaska [1]. STAR Vo…

Regarding the Score/Approval/STAR trio, I always felt that there was a clear fourth possibility missing from the list, so I invented it:

https://pastebin.com/PCgSaBS8

Still, I'm not much of a political campaigner, so it hasn't gone very far.

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#36
post #9

A question and a comment: 1. Would it be straightforward to add other voting systems? The easiest one to add would be approval voting ("Check off any option you'd support"). This has very similar benefits to ranked voting, and is more appropriate in many situations. 2. Your description of "How Ranked-Choice Voting Works" describes the "first round" and then the "next round" and "repeat until a winner is found." While…

On #1 -- It could be, but trying to stay narrowly focused. There are some great services out there like OpaVote that do a wide array of voting options and calculation methods. On #2 -- That's a great point. And one that hopefully people start to better understand by using RankedVote and seeing all the "Rounds" happen at once. But, yeah, for many it's a new term. How would you make it more clear?

#2: At the very least I'd throw the word "automatically" into either step 2 or 3.

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#37
post #32

Ranking the voting systems: STAR Voting > Approval Voting > Ranked Choice Voting > Plurality ("pick only one") voting. Ranked Choice Voting is marginally better than plurality voting, but it has problems. The chief defect with Ranked Choice Voting is its non-monotonicity, whereby increasing your support for your genuine favorite can actually hurt their odds of winning. This may be what happened in Alaska [1]. STAR Vo…

STAR and Approval have different pros and cons, they are not objectively superior. I think RCV is better, in my opinion.

STAR and Approval both have their own tactical voting problems. If you really like A, are meh about B, and dislike C, it’s clear you should rate A high / give A your approval and rate C low / do not give C your approval. But what about B? It has nothing to do with what you actually think about them, it has to do with what you think their odds of beating C and A are. You want B to do well enough to beat C, but not well enough to beat A. This adds too much distortion to people wanting to express their sincere preferences, which they can easily do in RCV: A > B > C

And, more importantly, RCV is a stepping stone to multi-member district STV proportional voting (plug for https://www.fixourhouse.org/), which is the golden goose; way more important to implement proportional representation than squabble about STAR vs RCV, and RCV gets us closer to proportional representation.

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#38
post #30

"How Ranked-Choice Voting elects extremists" https://psephomancy.medium.com/how-ranked-choice-voting-elec... This article recommends instead a STAR voting system which is still simple to implement and understand while not electing extremists in some cases. I would be sad to see NYC and others turn to ranked choice without considering all the alternatives.

This is quite reductive and ridiculous, people don't measure their difference from a candidate on a single axis and vote for the person with the smallest distance.

I am generally an RCV fan, but I think you're writing off this critique a bit too quickly.

Even with multiple axes the critique is still correct right? And I think (far from an expert) that there's decent evidence to support hotelling's law and median voter theorem.

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#39
post #32

Ranking the voting systems: STAR Voting > Approval Voting > Ranked Choice Voting > Plurality ("pick only one") voting. Ranked Choice Voting is marginally better than plurality voting, but it has problems. The chief defect with Ranked Choice Voting is its non-monotonicity, whereby increasing your support for your genuine favorite can actually hurt their odds of winning. This may be what happened in Alaska [1]. STAR Vo…

RCV has made real ground, and halting its progress for STAR voting seems misguided. There's no consensus here, but you're stating the ranking like it's some objective fact. Imo, RCV's growing popularity only increases the popularity of other new voting systems (note that we're having a conversation about them, because someone used RCV).

Re: Show HN: RankedVote – SurveyMonkey but focused on ranked-choice voting

#40

Hi HN! I’ve been running RankedVote as a solo founder for over a year and have had great success (and luck) with it being used to educate voters in New York City and Alaska. Bill de Blasio even ate a piece of pepperoni pizza as the result of one contest held on RankedVote. BUT…what I’m looking for at this stage are use cases outside of direct voter education where RankedVote can be applied. By crossing over into ever…

I've used misc voting systems in product development.

Approval voting for bug triage.

Ranked Choice Voting for prioritization (eg features, reqs).

Roman Eval (thumbs up or down) for acceptance testing and hiring candidates.

Using democracy at work is super light weight and fully transparent. Helped a lot with accountability.

Initially I had to be the heavy, coercing the team to honor their own votes. Over time, as people grokked it, teams would self-enforce. aka Empowerment.

Just to reiterate about administrative burden, quickly voting on stuff greatly reduced time spent nursing the misc bug tracking and project management tools. A huge win.

Post reply on HN