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Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

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Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#31

Kudos for the donation to charity! I wonder how the other for-profit in this space keep their business running, considering the amount of disputes that must come from users. For example, I know that Stripe is very strict on the disputes percent[1]... 1 - https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/measuring#:~:text=Dispute%2... .

Thanks! It's a good question and I haven't given it too much thought yet. For now I am just handling all disputes myself, if they get overwhelming I'll have to automate some aspects of it. It'll be interesting finding the balance between making it easy to get a refund when it's necessary but not so easy that the users would want to dispute it on regular basis.

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#32
post #6

https://www.stickk.com/ The very same idea with more developed solution, already community and more features (Just for people who looked for such things like me ago)

Yeah I was a bit gutted when I found Stickk after spending a bunch of time building Kommit. It's super similar and I felt a bit silly for not doing the research beforehand. However, considering Stickk has existed for something like 14 years, it doesn't feel particularly mature. I don’t want to be too disparaging (and I’m obviously biased) but I found their website quite clunky and the apps don’t receive great reviews…

Definitely don't be discouraged by the existence of StickK! They technically already have the referee feature (that being your key distinction from Beeminder, which has a much less powerful version of that feature) but everything else about StickK is... well, I think you've already surpassed them despite their decade+ head start. They seem to have sadly been in zombie mode for years, since the founders left. I guess they're still making money though, which should be encouraging for Kommit!

Btw, here's our argument against the anti-charity feature: https://blog.beeminder.com/anticharity/

(I'm a cofounder of Beeminder, if that wasn't obvious. Also I just added Kommit to https://blog.beeminder.com/competitors/ -- very excited to have you as a competitor!)

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> (Beeminder is primarily based on API integrations) This strikes me as a significant mischaracterization of Beeminder. I've used Beeminder for 5+ years[0] and I've never used an API integration — Beeminder supports manually entering data for any goal. (And basically none of my goals have been digital; I'm not sure where you got the impression that Beeminder exclusively targets digital goals). [0]: https://www.beemin…

My bad, I thought the primary selling point was that it would would hook into the services you already use for tracking your commitment (Strava, GitHub, etc.). I am aware that you can manually enter some data but I didn't think there was any way to validate the data that you enter and I didn't think it was their focus. Anyway, sorry for the misrepresentation. I will update my comment above to be more accurate.

Thanks for the update, and you're absolutely right that Beeminder doesn't offer any way to validate the data you enter. They discuss why (in their view, of course) trusting user-entered data works in this blog post: https://blog.beeminder.com/cheating/

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#34

Kudos for the donation to charity! I wonder how the other for-profit in this space keep their business running, considering the amount of disputes that must come from users. For example, I know that Stripe is very strict on the disputes percent[1]... 1 - https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/measuring#:~:text=Dispute%2... .

Thanks! It's a good question and I haven't given it too much thought yet. For now I am just handling all disputes myself, if they get overwhelming I'll have to automate some aspects of it. It'll be interesting finding the balance between making it easy to get a refund when it's necessary but not so easy that the users would want to dispute it on regular basis.

Happy to answer such questions! By disputes I believe @hackandtrip means customers disputing charges with their credit card company. Aka chargebacks.

Beeminder gets zero credit card disputes because we give people a chance to contest their derailments and cancel the charge before it goes through. They have to talk to a human workerbee but we make it as easy as possible. If that doesn't happen in time and the charge goes through but the user still doesn't think it was legit for whatever reason, we refund it. No need for it to ever get disputed with the credit card company.

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#35
post #3

Have you considered reframing this as positive reinforcement instead of negative? It may require more trust in the system, but one example would be to have the user set aside a larger amount of money (in "escrow") that is paid out over time after successful completions of the kommitment.

Here's our counterargument, or at least why Beeminder prefers punishment: https://blog.beeminder.com/contrapositive/

Relevant bit:

This sounds good but we’re not into it. I mean, first, we do have plenty of positive reinforcement in the form of pretty graphs and the satisfaction of adding datapoints. You can even spin the pledges as positive — they help you quantify the value of your goals. That can be powerful information for us rationality nerds.

But why not reframe Beeminder to focus on rewards? Well, paying money up front and getting it back unless you derail is a trick — it’s equivalent to getting stung. At least for me personally, the equivalency would always be at the back of my mind and bother me.

And there are more pragmatic problems. I like having scary high pledges on some of my goals. It would feel especially unreasonable to pay up front on those. Even more pragmatically, most goals are open-ended: get 10k steps (or work 40 hours, or practice piano for half an hour or whatever) per day forever. There’s typically no particular point when it makes sense to get your money back. It would be totally inefficient to have money always flowing back and forth and would really muddy the mental accounting in terms of how much you’re paying Beeminder for the motivation it’s giving you.

Not to mention the laws and accounting involved. We’d be kind of a bank and have revenue that wouldn’t count as revenue. I assume this part would be perfectly overcomeable if we were convinced the psychology / behavioral economics were right. But, again, we are not.

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#36
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I was a bit gutted when I found Stickk after spending a bunch of time building Kommit. It's super similar and I felt a bit silly for not doing the research beforehand. However, considering Stickk has existed for something like 14 years, it doesn't feel particularly mature. I don’t want to be too disparaging (and I’m obviously biased) but I found their website quite clunky and the apps don’t receive great reviews…

Definitely don't be discouraged by the existence of StickK! They technically already have the referee feature (that being your key distinction from Beeminder, which has a much less powerful version of that feature) but everything else about StickK is... well, I think you've already surpassed them despite their decade+ head start. They seem to have sadly been in zombie mode for years, since the founders left. I guess…

Thanks for the kind words! It means a lot coming from yourself. As I've said elsewhere, I think Beeminder is the best competing solution I've come across :)

Love your attitude towards competition and I'm excited to be considered a competitor!

Re: Show HN: Kommit – Web app to help you follow through with NY's resolutions

#37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the suggestion! I have thought about using positive reinforcement, and I am still considering it as possible future feature. One of the reasons I chose to start with negative reinforcement is that I had read in "Thinking, Fast and Slow" that losses tended to be more motivating. I think there are arguments about whether that holds up or not, but I think it's true of my own experiences. Setting money aside i…

I suppose using something like a smart contract could maybe help with the trust issue, although perhaps only with relatively tech savvy users for now.

I'm not sure if it ends up too in-the-weeds but we had a fun debate with one of our Beeminder-but-on-the-blockchain competitors recently: https://forum.beeminder.com/t/decentralization-debate-beemin...

Very short version: We don't think smart contracts add much. Your users trust you.

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