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Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

ory.dev

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Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#31

Post by mooreds »

Sytten wrote: post #24
claystraw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both! :) Ory Cloud is still in it's early phases and we have not been very good at communicating it well. Basically, we run Ory Kratos in Ory Cloud and it has full API and configuration and data compatibility with the version that is on GitHub! Our goal is to also allow users to easily switch from self-hosted to ory cloud and back - but it's still a bit of work until we get there. If you just want to check our Ory Kr…

If I have a suggestion for the cloud pricing, I would move away from the per user model that every competitor uses. It is a non-starter for all the B2C startups where a user might login once to buy a thing and never login again during the month/year. That is will I am not suggesting any auth provider to my clients and I recommend they use passport/build it in house. I really prefer to have pricing per API calls (in c…

@sytten, interesting feedback. How would you feel about MAU pricing that varies?

If you are an app for schools and students, you might have 300k users in Sep-May, but 10k users in Jun-Aug.

Would you feel comfortable if the cost went down during the low traffic months to a lower band, based on the 10k users?

Or is that still a non-starter?

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#32

Post by prpl »

claystraw wrote: post #11
rapnie wrote: post #10

I found it hard to quickly determine whether Kratos can run completely self-hosted, or that there's always some connection to Ory / Ory Cloud services.

Both! :) Ory Cloud is still in it's early phases and we have not been very good at communicating it well. Basically, we run Ory Kratos in Ory Cloud and it has full API and configuration and data compatibility with the version that is on GitHub! Our goal is to also allow users to easily switch from self-hosted to ory cloud and back - but it's still a bit of work until we get there. If you just want to check our Ory Kr…

It would be nice if you could get some polish on some no-code examples of kratos and hydra working together, beyond a branch in an example app repository

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#33

Post by claystraw »

prpl wrote: post #32
claystraw wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both! :) Ory Cloud is still in it's early phases and we have not been very good at communicating it well. Basically, we run Ory Kratos in Ory Cloud and it has full API and configuration and data compatibility with the version that is on GitHub! Our goal is to also allow users to easily switch from self-hosted to ory cloud and back - but it's still a bit of work until we get there. If you just want to check our Ory Kr…

It would be nice if you could get some polish on some no-code examples of kratos and hydra working together, beyond a branch in an example app repository

We actually want to have it work natively together, but just can't find the time to implement it. But the team is growing, so we'll definitely have something here soon! :)

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#34

Post by dotancohen »

claystraw wrote: post #30
dotancohen wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another top-level comment mused: > I found it hard to quickly determine whether Kratos can run completely > self-hosted, or that there's always some connection to Ory / Ory Cloud services. I would appreciate answering that at the proper comment, I'm sure many readers here are very interested in the privacy aspect: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29330048

Does https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29330103 answer your questions or can I clarify further? :)

Terrific, thank you.

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#35

Post by boneabcd »

bsid wrote: post #18
chwzr wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes having the identity on hand by just looking up req.identity would be super neat feature!

checkout - https://clerk.dev/solutions/nextjs-authentication , the middleware works like you're talking about. It's lighter weight than ory, i think. I've struggled to figure out how all of ory's pieces fit together, however their upcoming cloud offering may resolve some of those challenges!

From reading the linked article it seems fairly easy to use. Do you have some concrete examples why your solution would be "lighter"? I'd actually say it's heavier since you have to pay and end up in a "custom pricing scheme" (whatever that means) for 10k+ users as it says on your website. And it's also only available as a cloud service, with all the vendor lock in shenanigans everyone hates.

By the way people usually disclaim upfront on HN (see FusionAuth folks here) when they are involved in a project. Seems like you are the "CTO at Clerk". Frankly it's dishonest to talk bad about open source without claims to back it up while also being in a competitive space and plugging your solution in their "Show HN" moment.

tl;dr no thanks I'll look somewhere else...

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#36

Post by bsid »

claystraw wrote: post #28
bsid wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MAU pricing is terrible! love this idea. Heads up, I don't quite get this from your pricing page at all right now.. It says "First 900 free" and "First 100 free" without any indication of what those numbers mean.

Clerk (your profile says you're CTO) has a per-user pricing though? Or are you planning on changing it? > It says "First 900 free" and "First 100 free" without any indication of what those numbers mean. Thank you, we'll clarify that! It means that we're giving the first 900 "start up" and 100 "growth" plans away for free for a year

Ahh, that makes sense, cool!

Yes, I am the CTO @ Clerk, and we do have per-user pricing right now, however, that doesn't mean we like it. It's something we've struggled with - how do you make pricing scale in some way, while still being clear, while also being predictable. There's also value in being in-line with the status quo - when your numbers are priced competitively using the "industry standard (auth0)" scale.

Every method, I think, has it's issues, and it's something we would like to make as frictionless as possible in the decision making process. I imagine with a "per CPU/mem usage model", you will run into a lot of questions.. (how am i supposed to know how much CPU/mem you, as a cloud provider, uses?). I also don't necessarily think gcloud/aws/etc. are the bastion of clear pricing.

Per API call seems more predictable, but still not as clear as the "at a glance, MAU number" Do product managers know how many API calls your average user would use? Yes, auth is most often implemented by devs, but are they always the buyer?

I do think there's something better, and I like thinking about new options :) We don't have a clear plan to change from MAU right now, but I hope we get there. Love ory btw, been following it for quite some time!

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#38

Post by p2hari »

claystraw wrote: post #21
p2hari wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the part on DB adapters is right in the sense that NextAuth allows us to use whichever db persistence we need. But if that is handled by Ory. what Db does Ory use? Should we set up our own.? Also, authentication and authorization are core for an app. If we do authentication here, how does authorization work? Can I bring my own authorization like oso etc.

With great power comes great responsibility :) Having the flexibility to build persistence yourself is great, it comes at the cost and responsibility of continuously maintaining it! We have run into so, so many edge cases. Here are some examples: 1. What do you do when a user with email "foo@example.org" has already signed up, and now is trying to sign up using Google with "foo@example.org"? 2. How do you ensure that…

yes. thanks.

Re: Show HN: Open-Source Auth for NextJS / React

#40

Post by saintfiends »

claystraw wrote: post #12
mjepronk wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for working on this interesting open source product. I have some questions: - Is it possible to have multiple organizations in one single instance? Can I have some superusers that have access to all organizations? - Can I delegate authentication for a subset of users (in my case this will always be an entire organization) to another authentication provider (say Microsoft ADFS)? - Do you support SAML 2.0 cli…

Thank you for these questions! First of all I want to say that Ory Kratos is built for customer facing authentication first, so many of the enterprise requirements (e.g. LDAP integration) are still missing. Our vision is to build the de-facto open standard for auth, so enterprise IAM is on the roadmap. It just needs time & community feedback to get there :) To answer your questions: - Is it possible to have multiple…

> Yes! Right now we only support OpenID Connect and OAuth1/OAuth2 delegation but more to come.

Does it support OAuth1 delegation. Could you point to the docs

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