Needs more Vaporwave.
Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
31–40 of 45 posts
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#32This is very interesting.
Could you move the next and reset buttons so they're easier to click?
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#33Earlier quoted context omitted.
I wold say that being Euclidean requires very plain topology, an equivalent of a plane. Else you can't get Euclidian distance, for example. By this token, classic Doom is already non-Euclidean because of teleports. What people often want when they ask for non-Euclidean is a curved space, like, well, the surface of a globe. Or maybe a torus. Or space being infinitely repeated while looking flat (also much like a torus…
Geometry is the curvature of the fabric the space is made of. Topology is how you sew/glue this fabric. You can make a cylinder out of flat paper, so it is an Euclidean manifold. You cannot make a sphere out of flat paper, so it is a non-Euclidean manifold. Non-Euclidean geometry refers specifically to the geometry, not to the topology. It is not "anything where the distance is not the Euclidean distance" or "anythin…
I agree that you can glue flat paper in a way that connects disparate points without making it spherical and thus breaking the Euclidean properties: parallel lines, sum of angles in a triangle, distance, except for the teleport points. You can draw two lines parallel to a given line through a given non-teleport point: one passing through a teleport, another not passing.
Since the very notion of a line or a distance in the Mountain Valley world is ill-defined, I would not call it Euclidean either, even though each static configuration of it may be Euclidean, minus doors (which are teleports again).
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#34Anyone work out the key bind for undo?
It's Z, the traditional undo key in Sokoban-likes. More specifically, the key where Z would physically be on a Qwerty keyboard, regardless of what keyboard layout you have actually selected. Same goes for [R]eset.
Was almost surprised that a little web game gets this right when many native apps don't. I just checked the last three Sokoban-likes I played (Stephen's Sausage Roll, Baba Is You, A Good Snowman Is Hard To Build) and they all follow the currently active layout. Which admittedly is way better than the really annoying games that memorise the layout that's selected when you launch them and have to be completely restarted if it wasn't the one you wanted.
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#35This is very interesting. Could you move the next and reset buttons so they're easier to click?
I'm not sure if this is the same issue but we've heard from tons of people that the "undo" button should be at the bottom in order to make it easier to reach using a phone one-handed. We've now made that change. If you're referring to something else, please elaborate :-)
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#36Please add game instructions!
Clicking and keyboard work on the computer, and tapping and swiping works on touch devices. I was hoping this would be clear enough since I don't want to take up people's time with tutorials. Maybe we can add a separate "help" button or add this to the about page?
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#37Earlier quoted context omitted.
Geometry is the curvature of the fabric the space is made of. Topology is how you sew/glue this fabric. You can make a cylinder out of flat paper, so it is an Euclidean manifold. You cannot make a sphere out of flat paper, so it is a non-Euclidean manifold. Non-Euclidean geometry refers specifically to the geometry, not to the topology. It is not "anything where the distance is not the Euclidean distance" or "anythin…
I agree that you can glue flat paper in a way that connects disparate points without making it spherical and thus breaking the Euclidean properties: parallel lines, sum of angles in a triangle, distance, except for the teleport points. You can draw two lines parallel to a given line through a given non-teleport point: one passing through a teleport, another not passing. Since the very notion of a line or a distance i…
Usually "non-Euclidean" is used for Riemannian manifolds, so if something is not a Riemannian manifold, it is not called Euclidean or non-Euclidean.
Just like "irrational number", which is not any number that is not rational -- we still assume that it is a real number, so i or Aleph-Null are not considered irrational.
If we include teleport points in our metric, we no longer have a manifold (if teleports are one-way, not even a metric space). Similarly for Mountain Valley, or affine/projective manifolds that can be found in some games, it is wrong to call them Euclidean or non-Euclidean.
Anyway, originally "non-Euclidean" was just the hyperbolic plane (the only geometric structure which satisfies all the Euclid's axioms except the fifth), and then (depending on whom you ask) it was extended to also mean other situations which are different but similar in nature -- so spherical geometry (which is just the opposite), Nil/Solv geometry (which also play with parallel lines), but not cylinders, affine manifolds, teleports, taxicab metric, and so on (they don't really do anything interesting to parallel lines).
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#38Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agree that you can glue flat paper in a way that connects disparate points without making it spherical and thus breaking the Euclidean properties: parallel lines, sum of angles in a triangle, distance, except for the teleport points. You can draw two lines parallel to a given line through a given non-teleport point: one passing through a teleport, another not passing. Since the very notion of a line or a distance i…
Usually "non-Euclidean" is used for Riemannian manifolds, so if something is not a Riemannian manifold, it is not called Euclidean or non-Euclidean. Just like "irrational number", which is not any number that is not rational -- we still assume that it is a real number, so i or Aleph-Null are not considered irrational. If we include teleport points in our metric, we no longer have a manifold (if teleports are one-way,…
Thanks, that's informative!
Games on "spherical", or rather, "polar" surfaces are well-known: space flight around a gravitating body, along circular geodesics.
A shooter in a hyperbolic space, and with gravity, could be hilarious.
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#39Earlier quoted context omitted.
Usually "non-Euclidean" is used for Riemannian manifolds, so if something is not a Riemannian manifold, it is not called Euclidean or non-Euclidean. Just like "irrational number", which is not any number that is not rational -- we still assume that it is a real number, so i or Aleph-Null are not considered irrational. If we include teleport points in our metric, we no longer have a manifold (if teleports are one-way,…
Thanks, that's informative! Games on "spherical", or rather, "polar" surfaces are well-known: space flight around a gravitating body, along circular geodesics. A shooter in a hyperbolic space, and with gravity, could be hilarious.
Unfortunately spherical geometry is often done incorrectly (in Civilization the Earth was a cylinder, in other games planets are tori).
What kind of shooter? An Asteroids-like game on hyperbolic manifolds (both 2D and 3D) can be found in HyperRogue, although there is no gravity. Gravity in hyperbolic space is a rather problematic thing, you always get some extremely weird effects, also I believe there are no stable orbits in hyperbolic spaces.
Re: Show HN: Sokyokuban, a puzzle game in a non-Euclidian world
#40Please add game instructions!
Clicking and keyboard work on the computer, and tapping and swiping works on touch devices. I was hoping this would be clear enough since I don't want to take up people's time with tutorials. Maybe we can add a separate "help" button or add this to the about page?
Yes. It would have been useful for me. I had never come across the original (2D Euclidean) game before, so I had no idea what the game objective was, nor that I was supposed to push boxes to achieve it.