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Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

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Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#31

Post by semiel »

monkmartinez wrote: post #22
izqui wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's why the needed security measures need to be in place. Using a hardware wallet like Ledger rules that scenario out.

Until is gets stolen and you can't prove you own anything, or?

That's why you have backups.

I agree that having full control over your identity has risks as well as benefits, though. I expect that we'll eventually see security providers arise that have user-friendly account recovery tools. Due to the plug-and-play architecture of blockchains, that sort of thing will work automatically without any need for organizations like Aragon to integrate with them.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#32

Post by Jd »

My 'cryptoequity' project was on the Hacker News front page a couple years ago (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7992667), in which many commentators noted that many high value applications were probably illegal.

As enthusiastic as I remain about the overall premise of equity replacements issued on cryptographically secure ledgers (including Etheruem, which I started with by running the educational channel Ethercasts), I don't see anything in this presentation that indicates that the massive challenges regarding nation-state regulation have been solved.

Even were one to go on the premise that one can effectively run this in a sandbox away from standard nation-state regulation, one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have?

This and related effects caused ~2 years of delays in my own implementation.

I'll note I remain optimistic and positive about all related efforts in this field.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#33

Post by JorgeGT »

izqui wrote: post #28
JorgeGT wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your link talks about a conceptual project that isn't in any way running yet nor has been approved by the National Bank of Spain. How can Aragon companies comply with their INSS obligations today?

It is a responsibility of the individual to follow the laws of her jurisdiction. It is a global project, so we won't be working with every local regulatory body. Aragon is creating a framework (as an open source project) for running Blockchain companies. We don't provide legal advice nor services, we don't take any responsibility for a hypothetic bad usage of our software.

Then I don't see why you choose to say "Death to paperwork. Avoid useless intermediaries" in your website if I still have to do all the required paperwork, same as before, plus now I need more useless intermediaries to convert ETH into fiat to pay the taxman, the bookkeeper...

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#34

Post by seagreen »

semiel wrote: post #29
seagreen wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What language are the contracts written in? Do you have a specification of that language? EDIT: Nevermind, I see in an another comment that you're using Solidity. Thanks for the answer! Now I have a new question. What do you think about the claim that, "Solidity, while being an interesting proof of concept, is dangerously under-contained and very difficult to analyze statically." ( http://www.stephendiehl.com/posts/s…

Solidity is not an ideal language, but I also think that the ~ deep concern ~ everyone has about it is overblown. C is a pretty problematic language too, but plenty of reliable software is built in it. Engineering and testing practices are more important than bikeshedding the language itself.

A flagship Solidity product has already been pwned for $50 million dollars, leading to a hard fork of Etherium. This is not fake "~deep concern~", this is a real problem.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#35

Post by semiel »

seagreen wrote: post #34
semiel wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Solidity is not an ideal language, but I also think that the ~ deep concern ~ everyone has about it is overblown. C is a pretty problematic language too, but plenty of reliable software is built in it. Engineering and testing practices are more important than bikeshedding the language itself.

A flagship Solidity product has already been pwned for $50 million dollars, leading to a hard fork of Etherium. This is not fake " ~deep concern~ ", this is a real problem.

It was a badly designed app written by a couple of over-eager developers who didn't have any security plan in place. If you blamed the language every time a website got hacked, there wouldn't be any languages left.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#38

Post by aaron-lebo »

monkmartinez wrote: post #18
izqui wrote: post #3

This is Jorge, Tech Lead at Aragon, a platform for creating companies on top of the Ethereum blockchain (DACs). Here is our launch post and mission statement: https://medium.com/aragondec/introducing-aragon-unstoppable-... We are still early, but we are now in Alpha stage. We have published a small sneak peek of what we are building on aragon.one so you can try out how managing an Aragon company will be like. Our amb…

The launch post seems to say that Ethereum|Aragon can solve the nation state problem, taxes and a whole host of other "problems" associated with running a business. How? How does Aragon eliminate the IRS or DIAN if you are doing business in America or Colombia, respectively? How does it eliminate regulations on interstate and international commerce? What companies would actually use this to run their verses say Quick…

It also includes:

You can replace every intermediary with a more efficient and fair decentralized solution.

How?

Decentralized solutions by their nature are less efficient than centralized solutions.

One of the most basic needs in humans’ lives is to transact. Create products, provide services, sell them to others. Add value to their lives. The market.

It’s the core of everything we do, from the moment we wake up to the moment we fall asleep. The market system is how we live.

What does this mean? It sounds like something you'd hear on Silicon Valley. Very rah-rah but where's the substance?

I feel like this is a cool technical solution that is not realizing that the real issue is social and bureaucratic. The way they are pitching themselves doesn't give me faith that they have a solid plan. Hopefully that's not unfair.

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#39

Post by clavalle »

Jd wrote: post #32

My 'cryptoequity' project was on the Hacker News front page a couple years ago ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7992667 ), in which many commentators noted that many high value applications were probably illegal. As enthusiastic as I remain about the overall premise of equity replacements issued on cryptographically secure ledgers (including Etheruem, which I started with by running the educational channel Ethe…

> one has the more general problem of enforceability of contracts, etc. If I hire you via a crypto-contract but then you don't deliver the associated goods, what recourse do I have?

I thought the point of crypto-contracts was to make enforcement as automatic as possible...if that is not fully true, are there any neutral verifications services that can hold things in escrow?

Re: Show HN: Aragon – Everything you need to run your company on Ethereum

#40

Post by alexmingoia »

izqui wrote: post #3

This is Jorge, Tech Lead at Aragon, a platform for creating companies on top of the Ethereum blockchain (DACs). Here is our launch post and mission statement: https://medium.com/aragondec/introducing-aragon-unstoppable-... We are still early, but we are now in Alpha stage. We have published a small sneak peek of what we are building on aragon.one so you can try out how managing an Aragon company will be like. Our amb…

Are you dogfooding Aragon? Do you get paid and manage your shares through it?
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