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Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

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Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#281
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regardless of what changes the bank makes, it’s not going to let you access someone else’s money. This llm very well might.

Well, software has been known to have vulnerabilities... Consider this: the bank teller is non-deterministic, too. They could give you 500 dollars of someone else's money. But they don't, generally.

Bank tellers are deterministic though. They have a set protocol for each cases and escalate unknown cases to a more deterministic point of contact.

It will be difficult to incorporate relative access or restrictions to features with respect to users current/known state or actions. Might as well write the entire web app at that point.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#282
Everyone seems to be missing the point. Using an LLM to perform book keeping like this is akin to a business in the dot-com era hiring a programmer to help them go online. But since it's an LLM, the next step would be different. The LLM might initially do all the actions itself, but eventually it should train optimised pathways just for this purpose. It would become an app that isn't actually written out in code. Or alternatively, the LLM might actually dump its optimized logic into a program that it runs as a tool.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#283
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. You or your coworker are not a web app. You can do some of the things that web apps can, and many things that a web app can't, but neither is because of the modality. Coded determinism is hard for many problems and I find it entirely plausible that it could turn out to be the wrong approach in software, that is designed to solve som…

> Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. Talk about a nonsensical non-sequitur, but I’ll bite. People want those to be deterministic too, to a large extent. When people cook a meal with the same ingredients and the same times and processes (like parameters to a function), they expect it to taste about the same, they never expect to cook a pizza and take a salad out of th…

Exactly this. The perfect example is Google Assistant for me. It's such a terrible service because it's so indeterministic. One day it happily answers your basic question with a smile, and when you need it most it doesn't even try and only comes up with "Sorry I don't understand".

When products have limitations, those are usually acceptable to me if I know what they are or if I can find out what the breaking point is.

If the breaking point was me speaking a bit unclearly, I'd speak more clearly. If the breaking point was complex questions, I'd ask simpler ones. If the breaking point is truly random, I simply stop using the service because it's unpredictable and frustrating.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#284
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. You or your coworker are not a web app. You can do some of the things that web apps can, and many things that a web app can't, but neither is because of the modality. Coded determinism is hard for many problems and I find it entirely plausible that it could turn out to be the wrong approach in software, that is designed to solve som…

> Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. Talk about a nonsensical non-sequitur, but I’ll bite. People want those to be deterministic too, to a large extent. When people cook a meal with the same ingredients and the same times and processes (like parameters to a function), they expect it to taste about the same, they never expect to cook a pizza and take a salad out of th…

Ways to start my morning...reading "When they have sex, people expect to ejaculate and feel good, not have their intercourse morph into a drag race with a clown half-way though."

Stellar description.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#286
post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. You or your coworker are not a web app. You can do some of the things that web apps can, and many things that a web app can't, but neither is because of the modality. Coded determinism is hard for many problems and I find it entirely plausible that it could turn out to be the wrong approach in software, that is designed to solve som…

> Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. Talk about a nonsensical non-sequitur, but I’ll bite. People want those to be deterministic too, to a large extent. When people cook a meal with the same ingredients and the same times and processes (like parameters to a function), they expect it to taste about the same, they never expect to cook a pizza and take a salad out of th…

This thing of 'look, nobody cares about the details really, they just care about the solution' is a meme that I think will be here forever in software. It was here before LLMs, they're now just the current socially accepted legitimacy vehicle for the meme.

In the end, useful stuff is built by people caring about the details. This will always be true. I think in LLMs and broadly AI people see an escape valve from that where the thinking about the details can be taken off their hands, and that's appealing, but it won't work in exactly the same way that having a human take the details off your hands doesn't usually work that well unless you yourself understand the details to a large extent (not necessarily down to the atoms, but at the point of abstraction where it matters, which in software is mostly about deterministically how do the logic flows of the thing actually work and why).

I think a lot of people just don't intuit this. An illustrative analogy might be something else creative, like music. Imagine the conversation where you're writing a song and discussing some fine point of detail like the lyrics, should I have this or that line in there, and ask someone's opinion, and their answer is 'well listen, I don't really know about lyrics and all of that, but I know all that really matters in the end is the vibe of the song'. That contributes about the same level of usefulness as talking about how software users are ultimately looking for 'solutions' without talking about the details of said software.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#287

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you may be either underestimating how efficient our brains are at computing or severely underestimating how much energy these AI models take to train and run. Even including our system of comfort like refrigerated blueberries in January and AC cooling a 40° C heat down to 25° C (but excluding car commutes, because please work from home or take public transit) the human is still far far more energy efficient…

That's a great point, and I think I was being vague before. To clarify, I was making a broad statement about automation in general. Running an automated loom is more efficient in every way that getting humans to weave cloth by hand. For most tasks, automation is more efficient. However, there are tasks that humans can still do more efficiently than our current engines of automation. Go is a good example because human…

I‘m not convinced this exercise in what to and what not to include in this cost-benefit-analysis will lead to anything. We can always arbitrarily include an extra item to include to shift the calculations in our favor. For example I could simply add the cost of creating the data which is fed into the training set of an LLM, that creation is done by our human biological machinery and hence has the cost of the frozen blueberries, the rigid fiber insulations, the machinery that dug the waterpipe for their shower, etc.

Instead I would like to shift the focus on the benefits of LLM. I know the costs are high, very very very high, but you seem to think that the benefits are also so high measured in time saved. That is the amount of tasks automated are enough to save humans doing similar tasks by miles. If that is what you think I disagree. LLMs have yet to prove them selves with real world application. We are seeing when we actually do measure how much LLMs save work-hours, that it the effects are at best negligible (see e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44522772). Worse, generative AI is disrupting our systems in worse way, where e.g. teachers, peer-reviewers, etc. have to put in a bunch of extra work to verify that the submitted work was actually written by that person, and not simply generated by AI. Just last Friday I read that arXiv will no longer accept submissions unless they have been previously peer-reviewed because they are overwhelmed by AI generated submissions[1].

There are definitely technologies which have saved us time and created a much more efficient system then was previously possible. The loom is a great example of one, I would claim the railway is another, and even the digital calculator for sure. But LLMs, and generative AI more generally are not that. There may be utilities for this technology, but automation and energy/work savings is not one of them.

1: https://blog.arxiv.org/2025/10/31/attention-authors-updated-...

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#288
Will be interesting to see how fast inference ASICs, diffusion LLMs, architectural changes like IBM granite small (when is that coming to OpenRouter?) and slight compromises for pre-generation can speed this up.

Also I wonder if eventually you could go further and skip the LLM entirely and just train a game world frame generator on productivity software.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#289
I think there might be a middle ground that could be worth exploring.

On the one hand, there’s „classical“ software that is developed here and deployed there — if you need a change, you need to go over to the developers, ask for a change & deploy, and thus get the change into your hands. The work of the developers might be LLM-assisted, but that doesn’t change the principle.

The other extreme is what has been described here, where the LLM provides the software „on the fly“.

What I‘m imagining is a software, deployed on a system and provided in the usual way — say, a web application for managing inventory.

Now, you use this software as usual.

However, you can also „meta-use“ the software, as in: you click a special button, which opens a chat interface to an LLM.

But the trick is, you don’t use the LLM to support your use case (as in „Dear LLM, please summarize the inventory“).

Instead, you ask the LLM to extend the software itself, as in: „Dear LLM, please add a function that allows me to export my inventory as CSV“.

The critical part is what happens behind the scenes: the LLM modifies the code, runs quality checks and tests, snapshots the database, applies migrations, and then switches you to a „preview“ of the new feature, on a fresh, dedicated instance, with a copy of all your data.

Once you are happy with the new feature (maybe after some more iterations), you can activate/deploy it for good.

I imagine this could be a promising strategy to turn users into power-users — but there is certainly quite some complexity involved to getting it right. For example, what if the application has multiple users, and two users want to change the application in parallel?

Nevertheless, shipping software together with an embedded virtual developer might be useful.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#290

The question posed sounds like "why should we have deterministic behavior if we can have non-deterministic behavior instead?" Am I wrong to think that the answer is obvious? I mean, who wants web apps to behave differently every time you interact with them?

Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. You or your coworker are not a web app. You can do some of the things that web apps can, and many things that a web app can't, but neither is because of the modality. Coded determinism is hard for many problems and I find it entirely plausible that it could turn out to be the wrong approach in software, that is designed to solve som…

We're used to dealing with human failure modes, AI fails in so unfamiliar ways it's hard to deal with.
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