Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

apps.apple.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 351 posts

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#281

Post by Kbelicius »

casenmgreen wrote: post #246

It seems to me this is probing behaviour. It is a low-risk, initial probe, to test the bounds of what currently is considered normal. If it fails - it it is rejected - it was not controversial (parking fines) and so the cost is low. If it succeeds, the boundary of normal has been moved, and then civilian reporting of crimes for money will be extended to other crimes. Given USA now has authoritarian Government of Dona…

This line of reasoning makes no sense. It's a slippery slope fallacy.

> An obvious thought is that it will come to be used by ICE to incentivize civilians to report on "illegal immigrants", as defined by Donald.

How would this program lead to that? If this didn't exist why wouldn't it be possible for ICE to make something similar for reporting "illegal immigrants"?

> In Nazi Germany, Anne Frank was betrayed, revealed to the Gestapo, sent to a concentration camp and died there, because two Dutch brothers accepted the incentive provided by the Nazi party, the reward for doing so, to hand in Jews.

Again, besides using money as a incentive what is the relevance here? Are you saying that using money as incentive is inherently bad?

> You do not use civilians for law enforcement because when misused it fundamentally and profoundly undermines civil society.

Everything can be misused. Are you saying that we shouldn't do anything about anything? Do you think that laws and rules would stop the likes of Hitler?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#282

Post by Kbelicius »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #207
ponector wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would like to live in a society where everyone is strictly following traffic regulations. Almost every rule there is written with someone's blood. Also basics driving rules like zip merge will make traffic better.

Me too! But I also recognize that people are human and make mistakes. I've missed turns before and had to make a decision between a slightly risky u-turn or being stuck going the wrong way for a while. I chose the u-turn after doing my best to ensure I wasn't going to put anyone else at risk Should I be fined for that? How about speeding? Basically everyone speeds right? Let's just auto fine everyone for that all the…

I've done those things.

> But I also recognize that people are human and make mistakes.

But you can't make a mistake while making an illegal U-turn?

> I chose the u-turn after doing my best to ensure I wasn't going to put anyone else at risk

> Should I be fined for that?

Yes. Why do you think that you shouldn't be fined for that?

> How about speeding? Basically everyone speeds right? Let's just auto fine everyone for that all the time.

I'm all for it. What is your problem with that?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#283

Post by Kbelicius »

lan321 wrote: post #279
Kbelicius wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is becoming a cliche here on HN, to call laws and lawmakers stupid after reading a headline. > I don't idle for fun, I do it to reduce wear and tear. And this law isn't there for fun either. > I'm also sure normies will recognise when a commercial vehicle is idling to maintain cargo cooling, to maintain hydraulics, etc... Everybody is stupid but me!!!!! How tireing. Idling is allowed for running a piece of equip…

> Everybody is stupid but me!!!!! How tireing. Idling is allowed for running a piece of equipment. No. More so, along the lines of, random people should not be given financial incentives to regulate things they don't understand, especially not without a long checklist. A 2,01m video covers only the most basic thing. > And this law isn't there for fun either. Yeah, it's driven by the hippies who made OEMs write in man…

> random people should not be given financial incentives to regulate things they don't understand

They aren't regulating...

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#284

Post by Kbelicius »

casenmgreen wrote: post #254
globular-toast wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about constant monitoring of people, it's about cars. I'm all for constant monitoring of cars within towns. They bully and intimidate and generally ruin places for everyone else. There needs to be strong incentives for people to not drive cars right into cities, with appropriate alternatives, of course. I want to see much better parking on the outside of town with easy and safe travel to inside like light…

> This isn't about constant monitoring of people It seems to me it is a probe. If it is accepted for cars, then it moves on to people. Then it is used by ICE to pay rewards for handing over people Donald has decided are illegal.

This is called the slippery slope fallacy. It is a fallacy for a reason.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#285

Post by lan321 »

Kbelicius wrote: post #283
lan321 wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everybody is stupid but me!!!!! How tireing. Idling is allowed for running a piece of equipment. No. More so, along the lines of, random people should not be given financial incentives to regulate things they don't understand, especially not without a long checklist. A 2,01m video covers only the most basic thing. > And this law isn't there for fun either. Yeah, it's driven by the hippies who made OEMs write in man…

> random people should not be given financial incentives to regulate things they don't understand They aren't regulating...

Yes they are. The summons part is essentially what happens when a cop issues you a ticket..

> What happens after I submit my complaint?

> Where DEP issues the summons, you will be informed of the summons number and hearing date. You may need to be available in person or by phone to testify. If the summons is upheld, the respondent must pay the penalty in order for you to receive payment for your complaint, You should submit your request for payment to OATH. If the summons is dismissed, you are not entitled to any payment.

So any random can waste your time severely at no cost to themselves, and you have to prove you were idling legally unless it's a refrigeration truck:

> If you submit a complaint regarding a refrigeration truck, you must document that the engine that moves the vehicle was on and was not being used to run the refrigeration unit.

Where I severely doubt they know which license plates belong to refrigeration trucks to begin with, so you'll likely still have to waste time.

It leads to a hearing date with you on the hook for up to 18000$ the first time and them risking nothing after investing 5 minutes to get in that joyful situation.

The more I read about it, the more it seems like a great scam, though. Film trucks, make them appear to be running for a couple of tokens and drown your competition in fines. Once a day on some trial will likely be enough even.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#286

Post by MisterTea »

garyfirestorm wrote: post #268
12ian34 wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the problem? Why is this the wrong kind of law enforcement?

Because it loses nuance. If it was a meat truck trying to maintain temperature of the items while being stuck in a delivery paper work - now potentially being fined for keeping the meat at right temp!

The meat truck likely has a separate engine for the refrigeration unit that is more efficient that idling the vehicle engine. There are provisions for those systems in place so they are exempt.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#287

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #210
gorbachev wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York City doesn't do this for "even the slightest infractions at all times". The idling regulations are based on real harm, and the reporting requirements include things like recording video to prove that the car you're reporting didn't start idling in the last 5 seconds, but has, in fact, been doing that for 3 minutes or longer, or 1 minute or longer adjacent to a school. More info here: https://www.nyc.gov/site…

> And, yes, I would really, really want to live in a society where unnecessary idling is not allowed I would really, really want to live in a society where we aren't being monitored by cameras for every single minute of every day the moment we step outside our homes

In the US, anyone can take still photos or video of you at any time if you are in public. Other countries have differing laws.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#288

Post by gametorch »

tomhow wrote: post #222
gametorch wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please don't try to game HN like this. We can easily turn off the flamewar detector when the topic warrants it, and users who post excessive numbers of low-quality comments can have rate-limiting turned on. There seems to be a whole lot of drama about this project and from what I can see there are reasonable arguments for and against. How about just respecting the merits of open debate about a topic and let other rea…

[flagged]

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#289

Post by amanaplanacanal »

casenmgreen wrote: post #253
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Crime and Punishment: An Economic Approach , Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker showed crime can be discouraged if the expected punishment outweighs the reward. Expected punishment has not one, but two important factors: How big the punishment is, and how likely the punishment is to actually be levied. Punishment likelihood depends on how likely the crime is to be detected in the first place. Older societie…

In China, mass and profoundly intrusive State surveillance supports your Social Score and is used by the State to enforce compliance and "desirable" behaviour. Is maximum law enforcement a power we want any State to have?

There are multiple facets to this question. Would I want law enforcement to catch, for example, every murderer? Yes I would. On the other hand, we have in the US things like the fourth amendment prohibition against unreasonable search and seizure.

If these laws are used to sidestep prohibitions on what government is not allowed to do, i'd say they are a bad thing. If they are used to enforce bad laws, we need to get rid of the bad laws. If they are used to help enforce laws we all agree are good, that seems like a good thing.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#290

Post by amanaplanacanal »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #211
woodruffw wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn’t for chewing gum on the Subway. It’s for a specific kind of scofflaw activity that no society would tolerate were it not for the presumptive shield of goodness that surrounds drivers in this country. Having grown up in the city and gone to a public school where over half of my peers had asthma from the heavy truck route next to our playground, I welcome any kind of financial realignment between drivers ( es…

> It’s for a specific kind of scofflaw activity Well, history shows us that any system that grants a power to government eventually expands beyond its original use. So you will forgive me for thinking it's a bad idea to start

If you follow that train of thought to it's logical conclusion, government should have no power at all, since any government power could be used for bad.
Post reply on HN