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Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

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Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#271

Post by belorn »

qualeed wrote: post #257
belorn wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Law often focus on intent. I am not sure if identity fraud can be applied if the person are not gaining anything (assuming they are of the right age). Service providers might be of fault if their verification practices are not compliant with regulations, but I don't know if the law puts any requirements on users to verify their identity. To me this seems more similar to a people participating in a masquerade or comed…

> Service providers might be of fault if their verification practices are not compliant with regulations, but I don't know if the law puts any requirements on users to verify their identity. As I mentioned in another comment, I've heard no compelling argument that differentiates between this scenario (e.g. kid uses this site to access a nsfw subreddit) and an underage kid buying smokes with a fake ID. In that scenari…

In the case of the underage kid, they are actually gaining something by using a fake ID to buy smokes for which they otherwise would not be able to buy. The situation that the website is promoting would be if the kid used an ID of an other underage kid, for which they would be equally denied to buy smokes with. The outcome (and intent) need to be one where the user do not gain anything practical.

I work at a domain registrar and I have yet to here anyone talking about criminal punishment for false registration data. I have also never heard about any one being charged for filling in the wrong phone or email address when signing up for a service or membership.

Looking at my local laws here in Sweden, the law text for identity fraud explicitly requires that the use of something else identity must result in some for of direct harm to the person. UK law could be different, but I have yet to hear something to indicate this.

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#272

Post by [deleted] »

belorn wrote: post #271
qualeed wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Service providers might be of fault if their verification practices are not compliant with regulations, but I don't know if the law puts any requirements on users to verify their identity. As I mentioned in another comment, I've heard no compelling argument that differentiates between this scenario (e.g. kid uses this site to access a nsfw subreddit) and an underage kid buying smokes with a fake ID. In that scenari…

In the case of the underage kid, they are actually gaining something by using a fake ID to buy smokes for which they otherwise would not be able to buy. The situation that the website is promoting would be if the kid used an ID of an other underage kid, for which they would be equally denied to buy smokes with. The outcome (and intent) need to be one where the user do not gain anything practical. I work at a domain r…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#273

Post by qualeed »

belorn wrote: post #271
qualeed wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Service providers might be of fault if their verification practices are not compliant with regulations, but I don't know if the law puts any requirements on users to verify their identity. As I mentioned in another comment, I've heard no compelling argument that differentiates between this scenario (e.g. kid uses this site to access a nsfw subreddit) and an underage kid buying smokes with a fake ID. In that scenari…

In the case of the underage kid, they are actually gaining something by using a fake ID to buy smokes for which they otherwise would not be able to buy. The situation that the website is promoting would be if the kid used an ID of an other underage kid, for which they would be equally denied to buy smokes with. The outcome (and intent) need to be one where the user do not gain anything practical. I work at a domain r…

>In the case of the underage kid, they are actually gaining something by using a fake ID to buy smokes for which they otherwise would not be able to buy.

The scenario I was comparing is an underage kid visiting this website, generating an ID, and accessing content that would otherwise be illegal for them to access by using the fake ID. In this scenario, everyone (potentially) would be in trouble, not just the website verifying the ID, just like an underage kid buying smokes with a fake ID.

The reason I mentioned domain registration was not because it is illegal to register a domain or anything of that sort. I mentioned it because it suggests the website owner is based in the UK, which is easy pickings for the UK government to pursue (if they choose to). If the website owner was based in Malaysia, it would be significantly harder for the UK to pursue any legal recourse against them (if they choose to).

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#274

Post by marcus_holmes »

antonvs wrote: post #123
marcus_holmes wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question, though. We hold that LLMs are incapable of generating copyrighted images, so it's not just a tool - if it was just a tool then the author would be able to copyright the images. The courts recognise that an LLM is capable of generating things in its own right (which is why they're not copyrightable - copyrights only protect human works). So it follows that an LLM must be able to create…

You're overthinking it. You're building on your own definition of what a tool is, but courts are likely to find that a person who used an AI with a specific type of prompt were using it as a tool and are responsible for the clearly stated intent behind their use. Whether that's actually legal in this case I don't know, but I'm pretty sure courts won't conclude "welp, it was the AI, not the user" in a case like this.

Yeah, probably you're right. Though it is an interesting thing to overthink - we have decided that LLMs are not tools for copyright but are tools for accountability. At some point they'll get smart enough to be accountable, and what happens then?

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#275

Post by subscribed »

brookst wrote: post #115
subscribed wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You jest, but a barrister was threatened with arrest while holding a blank piece of paper on the protest: https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/barrister-threatened-...

I wasn’t jesting. I was (too) obliquely saying that when we all hasten to accede to the autocrats before they even ask, we become complicit in huge social evils. I’m not suggesting that everyone most do self-immolation, but if it were me, I would draw the line at being afraid of being “caught” for an obvious prank using no PII. Screw that, come arrest me if things have really gotten that bad.

Thank you, I didn't get it previously. I completely agree.

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#276

Post by timje1 »

chippiewill wrote: post #13
qualeed wrote: post #3

I like the spirit but wouldn't this run afoul of one or two laws? Identity fraud or some such? I'm not in the UK, so I don't have any idea about their laws, but I'd be shocked to find this was above board. Your FAQ claims it's a parody site and claims " The ID number isn't valid and you can't use the card for anything real. " but you've just confirmed here it can indeed be used for real things (discord, reddit). Your…

I agree, the UK Police wouldn't typically let you get away with "it's just a joke". This would constitute a mixture of identity theft, fake ID and misuse of computers.

I've scribbled 'this is satire' across each and every generated ID, so they can't realistically be used for anything.

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#277

Post by ralferoo »

qualeed wrote: post #3

I like the spirit but wouldn't this run afoul of one or two laws? Identity fraud or some such? I'm not in the UK, so I don't have any idea about their laws, but I'd be shocked to find this was above board. Your FAQ claims it's a parody site and claims " The ID number isn't valid and you can't use the card for anything real. " but you've just confirmed here it can indeed be used for real things (discord, reddit). Your…

> I like the spirit but wouldn't this run afoul of one or two laws? Identity fraud or some such?

I would say not, but then again I'm no lawyer.

There's plausible deniability in that there's a big "this is satire" watermark on top of the licence. The DOB in part 3 is wrong, and the driver number in part 5 is modified to include the 5 letters of the surname, but is otherwise incorrect. The DOB encoded in the licence number doesn't even match the wrong DOB in part 3 either.

If anything accepts this as valid ID, then it just shows how farcical the system is.

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#278

Post by wkat4242 »

hellojesus wrote: post #263
wkat4242 wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> nowadays the louder voices on the left have sometimes been over-invested in freedom for culturally marginalised groups and under-invested in freedom for economically marginalised groups That's just marketing from the right to discourage people with average income to vote left ("they want to give all your money to the immigrants!"). The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying t…

> The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. Policies such as government supported housing, daycare, support this. These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. They introduce deadweight loss and moral hazard.…

> My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. Policies such as government supported housing, daycare, support this.

Oh absolutely. This is the way to make a more fair and balanced society.

If the US doesn't want that, fine but it is of course also the reason for the no-go areas/ghettos, the amount of violent crime etc. Because people who are in the lowest class and have no upward mobility will tend to spiral away in crime, because that does pay.

> These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. They introduce deadweight loss and moral hazard.

We don't believe in unrestricted free-market capitalism anyway.

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#279

Post by wkat4242 »

ryandv wrote: post #266
hellojesus wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The only people the left doesn't want freedom for is those who are actively trying to take it away. My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. Policies such as government supported housing, daycare, support this. These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. They introduce deadweight loss and moral hazard.…

> My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. > These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. Moreover despite all the constant pearl clutching about "systemic imbalances in resources between whites and People of Color" from the progressive left, you will find that most of these policies actually transfer wea…

Ehh at the left we don't really think in terms of 'original sin'. Most of us are not religious, these things are simply meaningless to us.

And DEI is something that is not about quotas at all. It's about having race and ethniticy not influencing the hiring process at all. Being "colorblind", which is ironically enough what Trump says how he wants things to be (but in reality he is very racist).

Re: Show HN: Use Their ID – Use your local UK MP’s ID for the Online Safety Act

#280

Post by ryandv »

wkat4242 wrote: post #279
ryandv wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My experience is that most progressive causes want to redistribute income from high earners to low earners. > These policies actively restrict freedoms by removing the freedom of choice from consumers. Moreover despite all the constant pearl clutching about "systemic imbalances in resources between whites and People of Color" from the progressive left, you will find that most of these policies actually transfer wea…

Ehh at the left we don't really think in terms of 'original sin'. Most of us are not religious, these things are simply meaningless to us. And DEI is something that is not about quotas at all . It's about having race and ethniticy not influencing the hiring process at all. Being "colorblind", which is ironically enough what Trump says how he wants things to be (but in reality he is very racist).

> Ehh at the left we don't really think in terms of 'original sin'. Most of us are not religious, these things are simply meaningless to us.

You are under the core progressive delusion that choosing not to identify or label yourself as a thing, means you are in fact not that thing. In truth, the labeling of a thing is completely orthogonal to its ontological status.

Concrete example: most of the left believes in a "gender identity," which is an immaterial, non-objective, unobservable, unscientific, metaphysical phenomenon that is somehow "more you" than the material reality of the physical body. If you strip away the gender theory jargon, you end up with a concept equivalent to "the soul", which is in contemporary discourse usually regarded as a religious, not a scientific, concept.

You may have called it something else - a gender identity - but despite the difference in nomenclature you are still describing and referring to the same thing the religious devotees referred to when they talked about "the soul."

> It's about having race and ethniticy not influencing the hiring process at all. Being "colorblind"

Again more progressive fanfiction and creative wordsmithing with no relationship to reality. The Supreme Court struck down DEI policies (rebranded affirmative action) on the basis that they were, quoting Justice Clarence Thomas, "rudderless, race-based preferences" [0] [1]. This is literally the opposite of being "colorblind."

I stand very firm in my position that everything progressives say is a direct negation of reality.

[0] https://www.npr.org/2023/06/29/1181138066/affirmative-action...

[1] https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/supreme-courts-conserv...

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