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Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

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Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#261

Post by johannes1234321 »

arendtio wrote: post #175
sodapopcan wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HJKL also allows you to keep your fingers on the homerow at all times which is really great. I had issues with RSI that when away when I started using Vim properly. Travelling to the arrow keys now feels like a painful task to me! Of course, as a sibling comment mentioned, hjkl is the worst way to move around--"power users" generally only use them to move a char/line or two.

On the other side, it is probably the most unnecessary inflicted pain for beginners. Even after years of using vim on a daily basis, I can't get used to hjkl and still use the arrow keys. I tried a few times with different approaches, but it never lasted more than a few days. So pushing someone new to use hjkl for navigation is so unnecessary and just kills a lot of motivation for very little value. Starting with del…

I sometimes use arrow keys (especially when in edit mode and I don't want to reach up to escape ...) hjkl really shines when combined with other operations like `d5l` or even smarter things.

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#262

Post by gbrown_ »

kkoncevicius wrote: post #88
varbhat wrote: post #31

Before trying these courses , Please try vimtutor that comes bundled with vim . After practicing with vimtutor , you can try these additional courses.

first vimtutor and then :help user-manual

Yes! Sadly a lot of people skip over this despite vimtutor pointing to it at the end. Copy/paste below as the text doesn't need paraphrasing, but also because a lot of comments here seem to be advocating vimtutor as something more than the "brief overview" it is.

    This concludes the Vim Tutor.  It was intended to give a brief overview of
    the Vim editor, just enough to allow you to use the editor fairly easily.
    It is far from complete as Vim has many many more commands.  Read the user
    manual next: ":help user-manual".

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#263

Post by 40four »

sverhagen wrote: post #248
ajfjrbfbf wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started with vimtutor, then installed IdeaVim in all my Jetbrains IDEs, it took me about a week to reach the same level of efficiency I had before. I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep. Sure it's a bit annoying at first, but it quickly becomes natural, and you don't have to use all features at first. It has allowed me to improve my touch typing a lot. Learning a programming lan…

> I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep I am doing fine with vim for basic editing tasks and use it a lot (mostly when I'm already in the command line). But there's just only so many shortcuts I'm capable of memorizing. This is not a problem for me exclusive to vim, of course. In IntelliJ I also sometimes find an amazing new function that I then don't keep using since I've already…

I’m a full time vim user now, and I would say the ‘productivity’ gains are a bit of a pipe dream. That’s not the reason I would recommend anyone learn vim. The best reason for me is that vim is just fun.

When you finally become competent, it is an absolute joy to work with. It makes me think about editing in a totally different way. However the road to get to that point is not fun.

I started out with basic tasks in the terminal, & vimtutor reps. Then graduated to using a VS code plugin. I would turn it on for 10-15 minutes at a time a few times a day. Usually turning it off once I realize I wasn’t getting anything done :) But solid reps everyday over a few months and I got to where I learned more complex commands/ movements. Eventually I never needed to turn it off!

Then I began the configuration & plugin rabit-hole :)

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#264

Post by krysp »

triangleman wrote: post #167
jehlakj wrote: post #158

This is neat but newcomers beware. This is the easy part. Setting up your config and plugins is why most people go back to ides

Aren't you supposed to avoid plugins and config so that vi/m will be familiar everywhere you go? That's the advice I've gotten on this board.

If you setup your dotfiles correctly, your vim environment should be accessible with a simple `git pull`.

The plugins are very worth it, there's no need to handicap yourself locally just so your environment matches some bare bones server config.

And regardless, the basic vim motions are always there - you don't lose much when just editing some config files on a server even if you have to use vanilla vim

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#265

Post by psdhn »

reitanqild wrote: post #259
boogies wrote: post #214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a structured setting for me to use them is provided by vimtutor. I wish people would take a couple hundred milliseconds to research things like this before posting about them — most [GNU’s Not] Unix commands take less time to run than a webpage takes to load, and installing their packages takes no more typing than a web search.

> I wish people would take a couple hundred milliseconds to research things like this before posting about them Have tried vimtutor twice. It is seriously confusing if you don't use US keyboard layout and there are probably a couple of other sources of confusion as well. I did well at school, I do well at work but not so well at vimtutor. So I think I'm kind of qualified to say that there's room for other resources b…

I don't see anything on this site saying that it accommodates any non us qwerty keyboard layouts. Does it?

Also vimtutor requires you to actually use the commands on the document. I don't think there is a single key press it doesn't explicitly tell you to press.

Maybe do a quick run through so you can give an example of a place that is confusing?

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#266

Post by ansible »

rjvir wrote: post #161
varbhat wrote: post #31

Before trying these courses , Please try vimtutor that comes bundled with vim . After practicing with vimtutor , you can try these additional courses.

Looks like "vimtutor" is primarily text explaining the hotkeys. For me, the bottleneck to picking up vim has not been merely knowing the hotkeys, but more internalizing the commands and building muscle memory. The interactive game format of this website could possibly solve that, so it appeals to me.

Back in the day, playing /usr/games/hunt against other people would hone your VI movement keys muscle memory rather quickly.

On the multiuser Unix systems at Purdue, it was typical to have at least half a dozen people on the server, with explosions going off like fireworks. We ran the mod where you could collect 200 ammunition for the nuke, which would destroy a third of the screen.

https://man.openbsd.org/OpenBSD-current/man6/hunt.6

We also had Larry Wall's (yes, that one) video game Warp, which was a lot more action-oriented than the original Star Trek video game. It also used the same hjkl movement keys.

http://ftpmirror.your.org/pub/misc/unixarchive/PDP-11/Trees/...

And of course there was Rogue and Nethack, but those are a lot better remembered these days.

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#268

Post by AlchemistCamp »

40four wrote: post #263
sverhagen wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't understand how some people can say the learning curve is too steep I am doing fine with vim for basic editing tasks and use it a lot (mostly when I'm already in the command line). But there's just only so many shortcuts I'm capable of memorizing. This is not a problem for me exclusive to vim, of course. In IntelliJ I also sometimes find an amazing new function that I then don't keep using since I've already…

I’m a full time vim user now, and I would say the ‘productivity’ gains are a bit of a pipe dream. That’s not the reason I would recommend anyone learn vim. The best reason for me is that vim is just fun . When you finally become competent, it is an absolute joy to work with. It makes me think about editing in a totally different way. However the road to get to that point is not fun. I started out with basic tasks in…

How many years have you been using it full-time?

Do you ever miss the global commands not implemented in VS code's plug-in? I still do sometimes, like this: https://youtu.be/46Evprns18M

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#269

Post by wraithy »

fao_ wrote: post #143
Fellshard wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe Vim-proper needs a plugin for that behaviour, so keep that in mind.

Do you know what plugin it is? I will try to search for an evil version (Or I could just write my own, but my task list is large and my energy very low these days)

This is vim-surround by tpope[1]. It does way more than just basic brackets!

[1]: https://github.com/tpope/vim-surround

Re: Show HN: I built an online interactive course that helps you learn Vim faster

#270

Post by 40four »

AlchemistCamp wrote: post #268
40four wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m a full time vim user now, and I would say the ‘productivity’ gains are a bit of a pipe dream. That’s not the reason I would recommend anyone learn vim. The best reason for me is that vim is just fun . When you finally become competent, it is an absolute joy to work with. It makes me think about editing in a totally different way. However the road to get to that point is not fun. I started out with basic tasks in…

How many years have you been using it full-time? Do you ever miss the global commands not implemented in VS code's plug-in? I still do sometimes, like this: https://youtu.be/46Evprns18M

Full time a little over a year now I think.

Yeah that's a good point. After a while you do start to realize the limitations of the VS Code plugin. That video is a good example. But once I got to where I could edit at equivalent speed I was used to, I dropped VS Code completely. I looked at the plugin as 'training wheels'.

I'm not as hardcore as some. I still prefer to use GVim/ Macvim. I'm not an 'everything must stay in the terminal' purist. I know some who are, but I still like being able to use the mouse to bail me out sometimes, and always have access to the system clipboard without having to recompile vim :)

I don't go crazy with config & plugins, but I got my setup to where I have all the features I missed from VS Code, and that's enough for me.

There is always more to learn though. I feel like I've been complacent lately, so you have to remind yourself sometimes to make an effort to seek out more advanced techniques.

That video is a great example of some of the incredibly powerful things Vim can do! I'm a big fan of macros for repetitive tasks.

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