Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#251

Post by rustynails » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:25 PM UTC

parfe wrote: post #123

monk_e_boy wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was a lifeguard at a beach. I didn't have any dramatic rescues like the video, but you soon get a feeling of which kids are a little too adventurous and need keeping an eye on. Your brain soon kicks into holding your breath while watching kids swim, if one is splashing around while you start to feel uncomfortable it's time to wade in and drag them to the surface. Often for us it was the uneven sea bottom, someone t…

>hoik I learned a new word today. >2. To lift something up wildly.

That's a it it. Hoist, buy yank quickly. It also has a different meaning that came back to me,

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=golly&defid=6...

To hoik a golly. I last heard that in the 70s. Not so charming...

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#252

Post by teekert » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:29 PM UTC

I live in a very water rich country (kids get swimming classes at 4-5 years old or at 6 in school) and I don't understand how a parent can let a child that can't swim in or near water without giving it 100% attention and being within arms reach of them constantly. Even in 20 cm of water they can slip and knock them selves out and drown.

How could this kid ever be in a pool deeper than he is long? Someone really, really messed up.

Very good to see this movie by the way, among parents we always say: Drowning happens silently. I didn't expect it to look like this though!

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#253

Post by blobbers » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

Is this just to drive a point home that you need to have someone watching out for you in a pool?

I wonder if image pro could help out in this situation by sounding an alarm if someone has gone underwater for too long. Then again, that might just breed complacency in those responsible for a child.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#254

Post by amalcon » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:31 PM UTC

novaleaf wrote: post #130

irishcoffee wrote: post #30

I would like to point out that any flotation device in a pool besides a life jacket is just asking for problems. I life-guarded for almost 10 years, the only way I would ever let anything that supported a human floating __besides__ an approved life jacket was if the pool was almost empty (such that the one person got my undivided attention) and if I knew the child to already be a strong swimmer. I highly encourage ev…

water wings are also terrible at teaching kids to swim: they can't properly use their arms wearing wings. I had both my kids (currently 3 and 5) learn to swim by having them wear inflatable vests. When they started they had fully inflated vests. every week or so I would deflate it bit by bit, until they are wearing a fully deflated vest. At that point the vest is just for emotional support, and they can pretty much h…

That makes me think. Could one make a remote inflatable vest? Basically, one of those vests they equip aircraft with, but with a remote control attached as well. While deflated, it wouldn't have a significant effect on buoyancy or encumbrance, so the child could learn to swim naturally. If one notices one's child in distress one could inflate it with the push of a button.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#255

Post by Nadya » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

bbcbasic wrote: post #230

Nadya wrote: post #16

The biggest eye-opener to me was the "Instinctive Drowning Response" article shared a few days ago. So few people notice someone drowning, even when only feet away. I feel it's a bit more obvious when you're further away. Is this in any way related or inspired by that post? /Start edit >Inspired by this hackernews thread: can you notice who's drowning in the pool before the lifeguard does? Answered my own question by…

I am quite annoyed that I didn't know the signs of drowning, having very young children and having watched water safety videos and taking my children swimming, but no advice on how to spot this. More preventative stuff. I think it should be made a bigger deal of. Often holiday pools are not guarded and if everyone around knows the signs then someone can be saved.

Knowing is half the battle. The other half is fighting. Spreading awareness would be the fighting part. ;)

Things spread insanely fast on Facebook. If a few parents shared this website and their also-parent friends shared it with their friends it could easily get millions of views within several days. And parents would share this information.

If you think it should be made a bigger deal of - why not make it a bigger deal? Message your school district representatives about swimming education, especially identifying when someone is drowning. Start a funding for a public pool for your town/city, if one doesn't exist, and support the school organizing "field trips" to the public pool to provide such an education.

You'll likely get ignored. So start talking with other parents and make it a large enough issue that it can't be ignored. I don't think many parents would be against their child being taught how to swim, practice pool safety, and learn a life skill that could save someone's life. The main issue is getting them to think about it in the first place.

The hardest part about getting anything done is finding a leader with the drive and ability to get things done. Few people want to step up and even fewer of those that are willing are capable.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#256

Post by Udo » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:32 PM UTC

Qantourisc wrote: post #108

AlphaGeekZulu wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd rather suggest to train children in swimming as soon as possible. Even if swimming pools would be banned, there are private pools, there are lakes and rivers and creeks and canals and oceans and shores, there are ships that sink and idiots that push you down a bridge. The drowning rates are especially high in countries, where people are not able to swim. I know this from the Sudan: people do not learn to swim in…

In Belgium kids are send to the pool at age ~7 until they are 12, weekly for an hour or so. And it's part of your education (but you don't have to pass it if I recall correctly but I could be mistaking).

It's about the same in Germany, swimming is part of the sports curriculum, and you have to pass. You're also encouraged to get certified for basic water rescue and things like that. Knowing how to swim is such a basic skill.

One thing I really like about German pools and something that makes me really nervous when watching Americans: non-swimmers and little children should not even be in the deep pool. Most facilities in the EU have a dedicated shallow non-swimmer pool - and then there's a separate deep pool for "serious" swimming. Many also have an extra pool for toddlers. I'm somewhat puzzled how in the US small children and people with inflatable toys are all sharing one big free-for-all deep pool with the adults.

That's the problem, in my opinion. If you're under a certain age or if you can't swim properly, you have no business being in a deep body of water.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#257

Post by ntoronto » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:33 PM UTC

aylons wrote: post #75

I may sound arrogant, but I'm being honest and trying to avoid my biases. What am I missing here? These drownings looked exactly what I expected from a drowning: someone going up and down the water, splashing in a disordered manner, unable to swim or to keep the head out of the water. What do people usually expect drowning to look like? Am I missing some detail that should make drowning more evident to me?

Meta-comment: Not sure what's up with the downvotes on the parent comment. During lifeguard training years ago, like everyone else in my class, I was very surprised to learn what drowning looks like. But it's not far-fetched to think there's a small percentage of people who aren't surprised, and only need a few blanks filled in.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#258

Post by snuxoll » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:37 PM UTC

TheGRS wrote: post #138

trhway wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

can't we have something like those fitness bands to be worn by children while in the pool - once a person starts drowning the heartbeat and other lifesigns are changing very characteristically and that can just turn the red light on lifeguards console on.

A summer camp I went to when I was younger was very heavily focused on swimming and water craft. We had 3 different colored bands to indicate your swimming ability. Red if you couldn't swim well, yellow if you were OK, but not enough for the deep end and green for the deep end. The counselors tested and trained the kids to go up the color bands, which was pretty neat, but I realize now that it was also a way to keep…

My local YMCA branch does the same thing, all minors are required to have a red, yellow or green breakaway necklace that indicate swimming level - kids with red bands cannot be in anything but the 1'6" kiddie pool without an adult within arms reach (parents still have to be supervising regardless), kids with yellow bands cannot go in the deep end of the pool but can be in the shallow end alone.

It's a really smart idea, and while even an excellent swimmer can become fatigued the more experienced ones will be less likely to need aid than the less experienced ones.

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#259

Post by mdup » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:44 PM UTC

trhway wrote: post #250

jacquesm wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> just hold your breath for couple minutes (or even better - ask somebody physically stronger to "help" you to keep the plastic bag over you head to make sure that you make the time :) and i think you'll learn the difference. That could easily kill someone, this is totally crazy advice.

man, I've put a smile there for a reason... The "help" is brought up as a device to illustrate the difference between at-will fun excitement and against-will panic. No sane person would be forcing another to not breath ( until of course it is a part of the job, ie. like police - chockholding into submission - or military investigators - waterboarding and the like) Edit: to "mdup" below - i've specifically mentioned "…

Would you say no sane person would inflict 450-volt electric shocks to someone else?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment

Re: Show HN: Spot the Drowning Child

#260

Post by grkvlt » Tue, Jul 28, 2015, 9:44 PM UTC

dimino wrote: post #178

atourgates wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it was a really good practice, and didn't feel it was assholeish at all. It's not like having your camper stolen was unavoidable. If there's a lapse in your attention long enough that allows someone to walk up to one of your campers, explain to them what's going on and walk away with them, there's a lapse in your attention long enough for your camper to drown. You're signing up for your job with the primary…

I think it's a terrible practice, wholly ineffective, and neighboring on pathological to instill terror into your staff at the prospect of losing a child. There are many better, more effective ways to ensure you're not going to lose a kid. We did things like count children before/after each activity, run drills at regular (not weekly) intervals, etc. We also had games where kids were left to run in the forest for mul…

> I think it's a terrible practice, wholly ineffective, and neighboring on pathological to instill terror into your staff

The point of drills that simulate reality effectively is to get you comfortable enough with taking the necessary actions at the required times that you will not have terror instilled in you. This is why armies around the world all do 'live fire' exeercise and so on, and why companies run BAU or DR failover tests.