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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#251

Post by RamblingCTO »

olivermuty wrote: post #22
RamblingCTO wrote: post #21

Kinda offtopic, but I think this is so dystopian as it's only the beginning. Technocracy at its best. Have a bad starter and don't wanna stop the car? The numbers and rules don't care, no room for benevolence.

My kids asthma wants your commercial car in a service bay, not idling outside a restaurant. I am all for not making a technocratic dystopia but this reasoning seems wrong lol

I understand! But still, I feel like mechanising these things is an issue, especially with the authoritarian people rising (especially in the US) all over the world. I'm annoyed at idling cars (especially taxis here in Germany) as well, but I feel like the pollution is very minor. Still illegal though.

See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_number-plate_recogni... I agree with the "slippery slope" theme. I would wish for more rules being enforced more. But not if the price is a technocratic law enforcement machine.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#252

Post by nandomrumber »

kennywinker wrote: post #230
carlosjobim wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He famously wrote a book about a totalitarian society, where people were encouraged to spy on their neighbors and report them.

Noticing a car is idling on a public street isn’t really spying, is it?

Noticing a vehicle idling on a street isn’t the same thing as noticing a vehicle idling on a street, taking video evidence of it, reporting it and providing a copy of the video with the expectation of getting a cut of the fine.

Is it?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#253

Post by casenmgreen »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #120
bluefirebrand wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand why anyone would want this Do you really want to live in a society where we're monitored for even the slightest infractions at all times and automatically punished regardless of any circumstances that might explain the behavior?

In Crime and Punishment: An Economic Approach , Nobel Prize-winning economist Gary Becker showed crime can be discouraged if the expected punishment outweighs the reward. Expected punishment has not one, but two important factors: How big the punishment is, and how likely the punishment is to actually be levied. Punishment likelihood depends on how likely the crime is to be detected in the first place. Older societie…

In China, mass and profoundly intrusive State surveillance supports your Social Score and is used by the State to enforce compliance and "desirable" behaviour.

Is maximum law enforcement a power we want any State to have?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#254

Post by casenmgreen »

globular-toast wrote: post #244
bluefirebrand wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't understand why anyone would want this Do you really want to live in a society where we're monitored for even the slightest infractions at all times and automatically punished regardless of any circumstances that might explain the behavior?

This isn't about constant monitoring of people, it's about cars. I'm all for constant monitoring of cars within towns. They bully and intimidate and generally ruin places for everyone else. There needs to be strong incentives for people to not drive cars right into cities, with appropriate alternatives, of course. I want to see much better parking on the outside of town with easy and safe travel to inside like light…

> This isn't about constant monitoring of people

It seems to me it is a probe.

If it is accepted for cars, then it moves on to people.

Then it is used by ICE to pay rewards for handing over people Donald has decided are illegal.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#255

Post by raxxorraxor »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

There always has been some kind of problem with any snitching app there was. I don't see how this will be different. I don't think it will see broad adoption, but there will be "power users", who usually pose a problem as well.

I hate people leaving cars idling, but I don't like any form of bounty app. This is the wrong kind of law enforcement.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#256

Post by sumedh »

theptip wrote: post #19

Nice. Pricing seems a bit steep for occasional use; does iOS make it easy to do micro-transactions with Apple Pay? (I get the dev may be trying to put bread on the table with this, which is also fine…)

> Pricing seems a bit steep for occasional use;

I believe most the fines are from small group of dedicated people who actively find offenders.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#257

Post by raxxorraxor »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #141
ffsm8 wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish it was was more common around the world. Not just with parking though, but everything in the context of cars. Like letting the police install a permanent speed trap on your property or even pay for the privilege of them doing so. I'd bet that'd curb a lot of speeding in short order

There's no need for violence. In fact, the capital outlay would be inefficient. If you want to curb speeding, the solution looks much the same: Pay reporters some portion of the fines collected from the speeder. You will very quickly see a cottage industry of Internet connected dashcams and on-board AI solutions spring up, because it's practically free money if you drive safely yourself for long enough. Pretty soon n…

Peasant bounty hunting really concludes the picture of a nation slowly failing under applause and cheers.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#258

Post by raxxorraxor »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #152
gametorch wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

You have it backwards. A perfect detection rate for crime makes it much more important that we define conservatively what we even consider to be a crime in the first place, and then what kind of punishment we levy upon it. You also have it backwards because it already reliably makes society better for you. Take the case of Biogen employee Michael Bawduniak, who spent seven years documenting covert payments that steer…

That is entirely different type of crime. Do you let an AI write your comments?

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#259

Post by globular-toast »

casenmgreen wrote: post #254
globular-toast wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't about constant monitoring of people, it's about cars. I'm all for constant monitoring of cars within towns. They bully and intimidate and generally ruin places for everyone else. There needs to be strong incentives for people to not drive cars right into cities, with appropriate alternatives, of course. I want to see much better parking on the outside of town with easy and safe travel to inside like light…

> This isn't about constant monitoring of people It seems to me it is a probe. If it is accepted for cars, then it moves on to people. Then it is used by ICE to pay rewards for handing over people Donald has decided are illegal.

Yes, care must be taken. These kinds of measures should only be taken when an existing power imbalance is already in place. We have laws to stop these imbalances, for example you can't use your might to force and coerce people. Do you think it's wrong for someone to be able to report an assault?

Cars are currently a huge power imbalance that needs to be evened out.

But, sure, some people will want to use the same technology to create new imbalances or further existing ones. That doesn't mean the technology itself is bad.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#260

Post by aaron695 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

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