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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#241

Post by matsemann »

vineyardmike wrote: post #151
yodsanklai wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> always reporting graffiti How does your city deal with graffitis? mine is plagued with graffitis and I can't see how they can be fought. It takes too much resources to remove them in a timely manner and impossible to catch the perpetrators.

It’s just a game of cat and mouse. I dont think there is a way to “win”, because it’s so easy to make new graffiti, and not practical to try and police and catch people in the act. I think they require private property owners to clean their own graffiti, which really sucks, but makes it more manageable for the city to focus on public areas. The city really just has a queue of cleanup sites and priorities locations th…

Quickly removing the graffiti is a deterrent in itself. People are less inclined to do it if it's never left untouched for long.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#242

Post by moooo99 »

hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #169
ffsm8 wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, did someone advocate for violence?

A speed trap is a kind of violence, yes. Have you ever hit one of those things at high speed before? Ouch. EDIT: I've been away from the States for too long. I was indeed thinking about speed bumps , not traps. Traps are cameras, and they therefore get a thumbs up from me in the beautiful bounties-on-everything-we-care-about future.

Even ignoring that misunderstanding, speed bumps can be absolutely great. They can‘t be installed everywhere since they also significantly slow down emergency services, but combine speedbumps and a crosswalk and you get a raised crosswalk, which is a great measure to increase pedestrian safety.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#244

Post by globular-toast »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #56
theptip wrote: post #23

I like the general idea, and I’ve been surprised this hasn’t taken off elsewhere, eg citizen videos for traffic violations like blocking intersections, it seems these should be ROI positive for the city to implement (lower enforcement costs, more ticket revenue).

I really don't understand why anyone would want this Do you really want to live in a society where we're monitored for even the slightest infractions at all times and automatically punished regardless of any circumstances that might explain the behavior?

This isn't about constant monitoring of people, it's about cars. I'm all for constant monitoring of cars within towns. They bully and intimidate and generally ruin places for everyone else. There needs to be strong incentives for people to not drive cars right into cities, with appropriate alternatives, of course.

I want to see much better parking on the outside of town with easy and safe travel to inside like light rail and bikes. All of this is possible if we take back what's been given to cars.

The biggest problem with drivers is they don't take responsibility for what they're doing. It creates a status quo where they feel empowered to do what they like and the rest of society bends to that. We have opportunity to force them to take responsibility which will reset that balance. It doesn't take much. When you realise you'll be driving at 20mph max and yielding priority to normal people everywhere driving suddenly won't seem so attractive. None of this is new restrictions on driving, it's just what they should have been doing anyway.

How do you feel about constant monitoring of trains or aeroplanes? If a train driver crosses a red signal it's straight to prison. When your actions can have such an impact on individuals and societies then your individual right to privacy is invalid.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#245

Post by globular-toast »

I don't understand people saying it's dystopian. This kind of thing is empowering people who are otherwise suffering from a lack of law enforcement. Motor vehicle operators take huge liberties all the time. Speeding, parking, excessive noise etc. None of these are their rights. They have just been taken at the cost of the rest of society. With great power comes great responsibility. That's how it should work. Stuff like this is just resetting the imbalance, giving power now to those outside of cars to force those inside to take responsibility.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#246

Post by casenmgreen »

It seems to me this is probing behaviour.

It is a low-risk, initial probe, to test the bounds of what currently is considered normal.

If it fails - it it is rejected - it was not controversial (parking fines) and so the cost is low.

If it succeeds, the boundary of normal has been moved, and then civilian reporting of crimes for money will be extended to other crimes.

Given USA now has authoritarian Government of Donald, this is obviously and incredibly bad.

An obvious thought is that it will come to be used by ICE to incentivize civilians to report on "illegal immigrants", as defined by Donald.

In Nazi Germany, Anne Frank was betrayed, revealed to the Gestapo, sent to a concentration camp and died there, because two Dutch brothers accepted the incentive provided by the Nazi party, the reward for doing so, to hand in Jews.

You do not use civilians for law enforcement because when misused it fundamentally and profoundly undermines civil society.

The State defines profoundly unjust new "crimes", and then sets everyone watching everyone, in return for pay, to accuse each other - and this in the "mass deportation", and "due process not necessary" environment now brought into being by Donald.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#248

Post by t0bia_s »

mhuffman wrote: post #155
hiAndrewQuinn wrote: post #6

This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. Incredible work. I would absolutely use this if I lived in NYC; I'll recommend it to my friends there.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrup…

Reminds me a snitchers during communist regime in our country. There was a lot of those who report to STB (state security, like KGB) all kind of misbehaving of citizens that could threat a state.

I'm curious, when there will be apps to report citizens that threat democracy. Like those who wear red hat. Or sleepong on street. Or make weird talks at home...

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#250

Post by nandomrumber »

kennywinker wrote: post #224
serf wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Don’t like getting reported by randos with apps? Don’t idle. a lot of friction is removed from society when we sequester surveillance/reporting/judgement/apprehension to one side of society, the criminal justice system. a lot of friction is added to society when we bump surveillance and reporting back into the domain of the pedestrian. Social interaction becomes reduced between nodes, new cultural standards emerge,…

Hol’ up just a minute. You can disagree with me, but you leave dolly alone! ;) I see what you’re saying, but I also somewhat disagree. We offload enforcement to police, which reduces friction for most but intensifies enforcement onto people deemed “suspicious” by social norms. Immigrants, black and brown people, young people, etc. On the other side, yes if we universalize this to all laws we’d have a police state whe…

What makes you think that the set of people prone to snitching-for-profit don’t overlap with the set of people who would intensify enforcement on which ever group you’ve deemed people to have deemed suspicious?

Or that, at the very least, there are likely to be unintended consequences of bounty-snitching that create some other set of strained social pressures you also find unsavoury.

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