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Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#231
post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This program specifically fines businesses with fleets of commercial vehicles (delivery trucks, buses, et cetera) for illegal idling, and escalates the fines for repeat offenders. You can't report random individuals, nor would I really want to build an app for that. The point is to get businesses to stop polluting.

Okay, that makes it a little less dystopian. But you make money off people snitching. And you're setting the stage for something far worse, imo.

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Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>[P]eople might want to keep a bad law if they continue to make money by snitching. In fact, money is the exact wrong incentive for this sort of thing. I've said elsewhere the optimal mechanism here is for that money to be paid to the snitcher, from the person who is being turned in. This would lead us to assume that for most crimes of a personal nature, we would have about as many people losing money due to the law…

>I've said elsewhere the optimal mechanism here is for that money to be paid to the snitcher, from the person who is being turned in. In some cases, which seem like a good idea like corporate malfeasance whistleblowers or government grift whistleblowers. This is because the people paid by our tax dollars would be at a disadvantage compared to an insider in the company. In others, you could see the direction it must g…

Many countries do enforce the speed limits like that. Try doing 110kph in a 100kph zone in Australia/NZ/CH and you'll get ~500$ fine pretty quickly and lose your licence on the 3rd try.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I get your take and agree with the sentiment BUT I don't think this somehow requires "automatic punishment". Also, if the laws are there then I tend to think they should be enforced. Maybe this kind of thing will empower places to drop some of the laws most folks agree are "slightest infractions".

This sounds reasonable but I think it's a bit optimistic I don't think "increased government ability to enforce rules and collect fines" is likely to lead to less rules I would love to be proven wrong

I agree with you on every thing you wrote here

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is a phenomenal application of how fine-based bounties can be used to rapidly improve compliance with the law. This type of thing can get out of hand quickly. Without me giving controversial examples, just imagine for yourself the types of things that different states can make a crime, add a fine, then offer to give other citizens part or all of that fine if they turn in others. After that, think of how unscrup…

Compliance with the law is a separate issue from the contents of the law. If switching to a fine-based bounty system like this suddenly causes an uproar over a given law, then I submit the proper thing is to look over that law and perhaps tear it down. Any "law" that people put up with because it isn't enforced 9 times out of 10 is little more than a tax upon those too honest to get away with it. As for businesses us…

spoken like a person who’s never had to load/unload a truck before

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#237

Commercial vehicles? Aw, man. Back to tossing birdseed in the bed of lifted pickups for me I guess. :(

I heard that some of the newer manchild carriers are technically counted as commercial vehicles due to their excessive width. They have to have different lights on the front or something. So you might still be able to report those. Presumably you don't have to prove that it was being used for commercial purposes at the time.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I've said elsewhere the optimal mechanism here is for that money to be paid to the snitcher, from the person who is being turned in. In some cases, which seem like a good idea like corporate malfeasance whistleblowers or government grift whistleblowers. This is because the people paid by our tax dollars would be at a disadvantage compared to an insider in the company. In others, you could see the direction it must g…

Re/ the speed limit, I'm afraid I simply don't understand. Why not just raise the speed limit to 70 instead of having everyone lie? If everyone starts then doing 75, why not raise it again? Eventually you'll hit a breakeven point. Considering that most highway accidents happen because two people disagree about the speed they should be driving at, and considering that fatalities and accident severity in such accidents…

I know populism is a thing but speed limits aren’t formally set for people’s preference but for safety and environmental reasons. “Most” people choosing to break the law doesn’t change that, and adjusting the law becomes a populist thing.

Accidents on the highway do not happen because people don’t agree on the speed to drive at, more than they happen because “cars exist”. They happen because drivers drive faster than their capacity to avoid danger. This capacity differs from hour to hour and day to day. Agreeing on a speed doesn’t make one less drunk or sleepy or unskilled, and so on. More accidents happen on the day after summer time switch when drivers have less sleep and it’s not like everyone just changes opinions.

You’re missing the elephant in the room. Not everyone is equally capable of buying laws or fighting the enforcement of those laws. When Musk’s datacenter was photographed polluting more than declared it wasn’t an instant fine, it’s a lawsuit that the taxpayer pays for (implicit fine on the taxpayer). He can afford it, but how much of this can taxpayers take? These are the people who can buy a law to make your life harder if you try to catch them red handed with something. They’re the ones who can see that you get fined when you say something that’s false or just inconvenient or not yet decided by a judge (like that most accidents caused by disagreement on speed, or that Musk’s DC pollutes more than declared) while they can afford to keep doing it themselves because for them everything becomes a lawsuit they can drag on forever, can afford, and costs you money too.

Making free money sounds awesome. But coming from a country which in the past “democratized” and incentivized reporting “bad” behavior, no matter how much you think this time it’s a worthy cause, it just opens the door up to abuse against the weaker members of society, and almost everyone becomes weaker as a result. You don’t see where this goes because you’ve never seen it with your eyes and don’t trust reading a book.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? I don't get this "gotcha". Is there any actual rational reason for making such rules, or is it stemming from some annoyance from seeing cyclists in the road? There already exists roads where cyclists can't be: Highways/motorways. If the problem is cyclists in the road, that solves itself by building better infrastructure. Where there's adequate cycling infrastructure, cyclists prefer to use it. Where there's lac…

> Is there any actual rational reason for making such rules, or is it stemming from some annoyance from seeing cyclists in the road? It's from a combination of getting stuck behind cyclists going really slowly and with no opportunity to pass them, and from so much blatantly illegal behavior by them like running red lights without even slowing down.

What about blatantly ignoring traffic laws by parking illegally in the cycle lanes, forcing cyclists to use the road and be an annoyance to you? I think lots of drivers have a blind spot for their own traffic violations, because all statistics I've ever seen points to drivers breaking the law more often. And when they do, the consequences are also much greater.

Re: Show HN: Report idling vehicles in NYC (and get a cut of the fines) with AI

#240
Using AI to improve enforcement makes sense, but I do worry a bit when reporting turns into a way to make money. If people start watching each other for profit, it feels like we could slowly lose some of that everyday trust. I wonder if there’s a better balance between efficiency and a healthy community vibe.
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