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Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

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Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#221

Post by simianwords »

didericis wrote: post #203
mikodin wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the need is to arrive where you are going. If we were in an imagined world and you are headed to work You either walk out your door and there is a self driving car, or you walk out of your door and there is a train waiting for you or you walk out of your door and there is a helicopter or you walk out of your door and there is a literal worm hole. Let's say all take the same amount of time, are equally safe, same…

> Well the need is to arrive where you are going. In order to get to your destination, you need to explain where you want to go. Whatever you call that “imperative language”, in order to actually get the thing you want, you have to explain it. That’s an unavoidable aspect of interacting with anything that responds to commands, computer or not. If the AI misunderstands those instructions and takes you to a slightly di…

this is a weak argument.. i use normal taxis and ask the driver to take me to a place in natural language - a process which is certainly non deterministic.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#223

Post by hshdhdhehd »

jstummbillig wrote: post #48
sunaurus wrote: post #20

The question posed sounds like "why should we have deterministic behavior if we can have non-deterministic behavior instead?" Am I wrong to think that the answer is obvious? I mean, who wants web apps to behave differently every time you interact with them?

Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. You or your coworker are not a web app. You can do some of the things that web apps can, and many things that a web app can't, but neither is because of the modality. Coded determinism is hard for many problems and I find it entirely plausible that it could turn out to be the wrong approach in software, that is designed to solve som…

Determinism is the edge these systems have. Granted in theory enough AI power could be just as good. Like 1,000,000 humans could give you the answer of a postgres query. But the postgres gonna be more efficient.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#224

Post by 63stack »

jstummbillig wrote: post #69
113 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because nobody actually wants a "web app". People want food, love, sex or: solutions. Okay but when I start my car I want to drive it, not fuck it.

Most of us actually drive a car to get somewhere. The car, and the driving, are just a modality. Which is the point.

Most of us actually want to get somewhere to do an activity. The getting there is just a modality.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#225

Post by nurettin »

113 wrote: post #174
jstummbillig wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us actually drive a car to get somewhere. The car, and the driving, are just a modality. Which is the point.

Yeah but in this case your car is non-deterministic so

I mean, as long as it works and it is still technically "my car", I would welcome the change.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#226

Post by reeredfdfdf »

maderalabs wrote: post #94

This is awesome, and proves that code, really, is a hack. People don’t want code. It sucks, it’s hard to maintain, it has bugs, it has to be updated all the time. Gross. What people want isn’t code - they want computers to do stuff for them. It just happens that right now, code is the best way you can do it. The paradigm WILL change. It’s really just a matter of when. I think the point you make that these are problem…

Most of web applications are CRUD apps - they store information in a database, and allow modifying & retrieving it later. People generally expect these systems to be deterministic, so that the data you submit will be later available in same format.

I certainly wouldn't want a patient healthcare system that might return slightly different results, or store the data in different format each time you make a request. Code is and will continue to be the best way to build deterministic computer information systems, regardless of whether it's generated by humans or AI.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#227

Post by krapp »

crabmusket wrote: post #114
krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That book is talking about user interaction and application design, not development. We absolutely should want developers to think.

As experiments like TFA become more common, the argument will shift to whether anybody should think about anything at all.

What argument? I see a business model here, not an argument.

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#228

Post by chii »

113 wrote: post #174
jstummbillig wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of us actually drive a car to get somewhere. The car, and the driving, are just a modality. Which is the point.

Yeah but in this case your car is non-deterministic so

> your car is non-deterministic

it's not as far as your experience goes - you press pedal, it accelerates. You turn the steering, it goes the way it turns. What the car does is deterministic.

More importantly, it does this every time, and the amount of turning (or accelerating) is the same today as it was yesterday.

If an LLM interpreted those inputs, can you say with confidence, that you will accelerate in a way that you predicted? If that is the case, then i would be fine with an LLM interpreted input to drive. Otherwise, how do you know, for sure, that pressing the brakes will stop the car, before you hit somebody in front of you?

of course, you could argue that the input is no longer your moving the brake pads etc - just name a destination and you get there, and that is suppose to be deterministic, as long as you describe your destination correctly. But is that where LLM is at today? or is that the imagined future of LLMs?

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#229

Post by chii »

simianwords wrote: post #221
didericis wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well the need is to arrive where you are going. In order to get to your destination, you need to explain where you want to go. Whatever you call that “imperative language”, in order to actually get the thing you want, you have to explain it. That’s an unavoidable aspect of interacting with anything that responds to commands, computer or not. If the AI misunderstands those instructions and takes you to a slightly di…

this is a weak argument.. i use normal taxis and ask the driver to take me to a place in natural language - a process which is certainly non deterministic.

and the taxi driver has an intelligence that enables them to interpret your destination, even if ambiguous. And even then, mistakes happen (all the time with taxis going to a different place than the passenger intended because the names may have been similar).

Re: Show HN: Why write code if the LLM can just do the thing? (web app experiment)

#230

Post by ozim »

Calculation is $0.05/request is valid only as far as AI companies continue to burn money as they are in grab the market phase.

Once the dust settles prices will go up. Even if running models will be cheaper they will need to earn back all the burned cash.

I’d much rather vibe code app get the code to run on some server.

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