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Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

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Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#21

Post by georgestephanis »

mpasternacki wrote: post #19
Animats wrote: post #16

Please call it something else. Mozilla's plug-in API is called "Jetpack". Thanks.

There's also a WordPress plugin called "Jetpack". Both are so different areas, that I don't think it matters much. If it happens that either project is actually bothered by mine and reaches out to me, I'll be happy to talk. I've checked for name conflicts in related areas, in package repositories (FreeBSD ports, Debian's and Ubuntu's archives), major open source hosting services, and haven't found anything related. L…

Howdy!

I'm the team lead of the Jetpack plugin for WordPress. I've passed it upstream to our in-house counsel just for a cursory review should it conflict with trademark scope or something.

(What do I know, I'm a dev, not one of those lawyer-types)

(But as the Mozilla Jetpack thing existed before we did, and we both coexist, I'm not expecting a kerfluffle, but who knows -- I am not a Lawyer!)

Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#22

Post by jacques_chester »

bcantrill wrote: post #15
derpderp1 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All looks very interesting. Am I right to assume then that there isn't going to be a SmartOS/SunOS 'docker' client which can understand zfs+zones / replace vmadm/zoneadm? I had planned on looking into writing this when they announced the 'new' pluggable architecture some while ago.. Because, that would freakin' rock...

We don't plan to do such a thing, but we would (obviously) be supportive. The challenges for a Docker daemon on SmartOS are several-fold: first, while clearly sympathetic to cross-platform concerns, Docker itself isn't actually (yet) cross-platform, and many Linux-isms were found in putatively generic code. Second, the Docker daemon has a hard dependency on cgo, which is even nastier than Go itself to get working on…

Consider looking at Warden/Garden as alternative. The main backend currently is for Linux and uses some of the same stuff as Docker. But there's a Windows backend coming too and (hand-wavey gesture here) I imagine this means it was written fairly generically.

https://github.com/cloudfoundry/warden

https://github.com/cloudfoundry-incubator/garden

Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#23

Post by gaalze »

gaalze wrote: post #2

The best alternative: http://www.7he.at/freebsd/vps/ Jails aren't that great: https://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/freebsd-jails-... But there is Capsicum too: http://lwn.net/Articles/482858/

Yeah I should have actually read that poorly written jails fud. My b.

Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#24

Post by anom9999 »

elektronjunge wrote: post #9
gaalze wrote: post #2

The best alternative: http://www.7he.at/freebsd/vps/ Jails aren't that great: https://aboutthebsds.wordpress.com/2013/01/13/freebsd-jails-... But there is Capsicum too: http://lwn.net/Articles/482858/

There's nothing wrong with jails. Its a robust technology that's been battle tested for a decade. They provide lots of awesome features that are useful for reasons other than security. In fact, the primary reason I use jails is not for security at all. And, AFAIK there are no exploits in the wild for jails. Like any containerization or virtualization technology there are theoretical holes. I'd stake a large sum of mo…

Just out of interest, what other reasons do you use Jails for?

Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#25

Post by mpasternacki »

georgestephanis wrote: post #21
mpasternacki wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a WordPress plugin called "Jetpack". Both are so different areas, that I don't think it matters much. If it happens that either project is actually bothered by mine and reaches out to me, I'll be happy to talk. I've checked for name conflicts in related areas, in package repositories (FreeBSD ports, Debian's and Ubuntu's archives), major open source hosting services, and haven't found anything related. L…

Howdy! I'm the team lead of the Jetpack plugin for WordPress. I've passed it upstream to our in-house counsel just for a cursory review should it conflict with trademark scope or something. (What do I know, I'm a dev, not one of those lawyer-types) (But as the Mozilla Jetpack thing existed before we did, and we both coexist, I'm not expecting a kerfluffle, but who knows -- I am not a Lawyer!)

Thanks for taking care of that! Please let me know if your legal team finds anything wrong. If you need to contact me, either open a GitHub issue on the repo, or email me (maciej at 3ofcoins dot net).

Re: Show HN: Jetpack, a FreeBSD Jail/ZFS-based container runtime

#26

Post by mpasternacki »

derpderp1 wrote: post #11
duaneb wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be far more willing to entrust a production DB to a jail than a docker container because it's been audited over the course of >a decade. Furthermore, aboutthebsds is a well-known linux polemicist blog.

My main use of Docker is for making application deployment less painful. I've heard of a few people who say they're running their prod DBs under docker but I cannot begin to imagine how fucktarded you'd need to be to do this (unless they have some requirement to spin up lots and lots of short-lived dbs, and those dbs have very, very low storage performance requirements...) Would you do that? Why?

I don't think that beginning your question with "I cannot begin to imagine how fucktarded you'd need to be to do this" is going to encourage people to answer that question…

That aside, my approach with Linux/Docker is to have a "fat" host system that is open to the outside world, terminates SSL, load balances and proxies the containers' services (nginx), and provides global services are either shared between containers (Postfix smarthosting to Sendgrid, DNS cache, rsyslog), or services that can manage user/service isolation well enough on their own (PostgreSQL). Containers run mostly applications, or services that I need in multiple instances or versions.

I do containerize Redis, as it can't be safely shared across multiple services (no privilege isolation, too easy for one service to DoS the other with a blocking operation), but then I don't consider Redis to be a database – it's rather a "shared state server", kind of a more sophisticated memcached.

However, I understand the approach of CoreOS, which minimizes role of the host OS. In this model, host's only role is to support containers, and every other process needs to be containerized. From this point of view, Postgres is an application. This way, I can flexibly run multiple version of Postgres, try to upgrade it without needing to set up separate host service, and so on. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, but I understand how it could be useful.

Regarding storage performance, database's data directory would need to be a volume anyway (to be able to upgrade database without trowing away the data). A volume is just a `mount --bind`, without any aufs layers, to any point of the filesystem, so it doesn't seem to me that i/o performance hit would be noticeable…

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