Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code • Hacker News Board

Re: Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

#21

Post by vezzy-fnord » Thu, Jan 15, 2015, 6:12 PM UTC

yoha wrote: post #4

fnefnmewfn wrote: post #3

I really don't understand why it's so critically important we teach our children how to write the next generation of photosharing apps for cats, to the point that we're urging them to do it in all forms of mass media and culture. I can understand trying to get children interested in STEM fields in general, but why does our society direly need mass quantities of programmers in particular? Executives like to talk of "s…

The underlying principle behind teaching (except for higher eduction) is not to make productive workers but knowledgeable and discerning citizens. The number of programmers we need is not relevant here: they may not need to know how to write complex programs, but knowing the basic principles of programming will make them more able in a worlds relying heavily on computers. This is already the reason why we teach basic…

The "basic principles" of programming are meaningless unless you define concrete paradigms - concatenative, array, functional, object-oriented and so on. I suppose you could talk about data types, data structures, operators, variables and so on, but I do not see how this knowledge will make one "more able" in a digital world. It can certainly impart a false feeling of knowing, however.

Actually, writing some ALGOL (or even languages detached from the von Neumann and imperative spheres) to see what it's like will ultimately teach you almost nothing, due to real world computation and software development being remarkably complex and multifaceted, involving tons of abstractions that require plenty of study to grasp.

I'd wager teaching people to use a free Unix-like would be much more useful than simply "coding" - which is too broad to have a strict methodology that can be used to teach it. And then expecting the public education system to do it properly is laughable.

Re: Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

#22

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jan 15, 2015, 6:15 PM UTC

Zikes wrote: post #20

[deleted] wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

The existence of hypothetical counter examples to ethical life lessons does not invalidate those lessons. Ethics aren't the means to an end, they are the practice of respecting people and treating them with dignity. Insofar as teaching ethics is even barely relevant to a discussion about teaching programming to children, the value of women beyond their physical attributes is even less so and suggests you're trying to…

[deleted]

Re: Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

#23

Post by Zikes » Thu, Jan 15, 2015, 6:31 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #22

Zikes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The existence of hypothetical counter examples to ethical life lessons does not invalidate those lessons. Ethics aren't the means to an end, they are the practice of respecting people and treating them with dignity. Insofar as teaching ethics is even barely relevant to a discussion about teaching programming to children, the value of women beyond their physical attributes is even less so and suggests you're trying to…

[deleted]

I cannot agree with the idea that nobody is allowed to teach relevant life skills just because you think something else is more important. For one, not everyone is qualified to teach the issues you find more important. For another, in a more ideal society such as the one you suggest, people are free to teach and learn what skills they like without having to justify it to everyone in the world who thinks they know better.

Re: Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

#24

Post by sanderjd » Thu, Jan 15, 2015, 8:47 PM UTC

jiggy2011 wrote: post #9

fnefnmewfn wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But programming isn't necessarily synonymous with technology, it's only one relatively minor subset. Hence the confusion about why we're encouraging interest in programming rather than an overall interest in STEM fields.

Schools (at least in the UK) already teach chemistry, physics , biology and some electronics / woodwork. Why not add some CS/programming to that?

We definitely should. But simpler integrating some programming into educational programs could be a much quieter and humbler endeavor than the current "learn to code" hype. The hype may be because we should have started doing it a long time ago, so we're playing catch-up, or it could be because a lot of people with a lot of money have an interest in seeing the industry commoditized, or it could just be that the people involved think this stuff is really cool and are just really excited about it. I think it's a combination of all of that and probably some other things as well.

Re: Show HN: Nickelodeon joins the effort to teach kids to code

#25

Post by bglazer » Fri, Jan 16, 2015, 3:29 AM UTC

fnefnmewfn wrote: post #3

I really don't understand why it's so critically important we teach our children how to write the next generation of photosharing apps for cats, to the point that we're urging them to do it in all forms of mass media and culture. I can understand trying to get children interested in STEM fields in general, but why does our society direly need mass quantities of programmers in particular? Executives like to talk of "s…

Basic programming literacy would help people in a number of different fields be more productive. I, for one, am getting sick of writing SQL for the marketing folks at my company.