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Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

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Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#21

Post by BrokenPipe »

tyho wrote: post #18
BrokenPipe wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We only provide instant confirmations for bitcoins we know that are going to get included in a block long before the nlocktime will expire allowing you to spend them.

How long before, because that would make it impossible for people to spend their coins at all during that period, which could be annoying. Also, does this mean that to verify a transaction can be considered instant, the merchant has to check with your servers and there is no way of verifying this independently? Isn't this a serious privacy problem?

We don't provide instant confirmation but that does not mean you can't spend your funds without it.

The minimum is 1 day or 144 blocks, default to 90 days, max is max block size.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#22

Post by dublinben »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #17
dublinben wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin users are an even more privileged class of the already privileged population. They have regular access to a private computer, and robust internet access. That is not the case for most people in the world.

Do you think the banking industry will support the unbanked faster than a stable and accessible internet will reach them?

If the wild success of M-Pesa is any indication, then the traditional finance industry will reach the next billion consumers well before an obscure technology like Bitcoin will.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#23

Post by mike_hearn »

dublinben wrote: post #15
LyndsySimon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those things are worth paying for. The revolutionary thing about Bitcoin (from a financial systems perspective) is that those things are optional. If I don't want or need instant confirms, I don't have to use them. Another important thing to note is that you're likely a member of a very privileged class, by virtue of being on HN. You likely have a bank account and a credit card. Not everyone is so lucky, and…

Bitcoin users are an even more privileged class of the already privileged population. They have regular access to a private computer, and robust internet access. That is not the case for most people in the world.

Lots of people in developing countries have access to cheap Android smart phones but no computer these days. Fortunately that's all you need to use Bitcoin.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#24

Post by BrokenPipe »

wdewind wrote: post #20
BrokenPipe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the banking industry will support the unbanked faster than a stable and accessible internet will reach them?

> Do you think the banking industry will support the unbanked faster than a stable and accessible internet will reach them? I would guess so. It's unlikely that big, stable telco companies get created without banks. Edit: and also, BrokenPipe, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on my original question since you are the author here...

I got distracted, sorry

I think fees will get cheaper as times goes by and the bitcoin network and market matures but it is very hard to say right now with the current transaction size limitations.

Bitcoin is still in early development and very niche, so far the incentives have been working well enough but once the block rewards halves is yet to be seen if fees will be competitive enough and whether the price for them will go up. We also have to hope that the block size and the network capacity can grow fast enough to support its own weight.

In general I think that as more players come in the industry the fees of exchanges, atms, debit cards etc will decrease.

I wish some core developer could also contribute to answer your question and provide more insight than i can offer.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#25

Post by wdewind »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #24
wdewind wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think the banking industry will support the unbanked faster than a stable and accessible internet will reach them? I would guess so. It's unlikely that big, stable telco companies get created without banks. Edit: and also, BrokenPipe, I'd really like to hear your thoughts on my original question since you are the author here...

I got distracted, sorry I think fees will get cheaper as times goes by and the bitcoin network and market matures but it is very hard to say right now with the current transaction size limitations. Bitcoin is still in early development and very niche, so far the incentives have been working well enough but once the block rewards halves is yet to be seen if fees will be competitive enough and whether the price for the…

Makes sense, thanks for sharing your thoughts.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#26

Post by mike_hearn »

dublinben wrote: post #22
BrokenPipe wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the banking industry will support the unbanked faster than a stable and accessible internet will reach them?

If the wild success of M-Pesa is any indication, then the traditional finance industry will reach the next billion consumers well before an obscure technology like Bitcoin will.

Given that M-PESA is run by a telephone company, is it the traditional financial industry or not? It can be argued both ways. SafariCom effectively runs a bank, but it is nonetheless primarily a technology company.

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#27

Post by qnaal »

wdewind wrote: post #19
LyndsySimon wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some of those things are worth paying for. The revolutionary thing about Bitcoin (from a financial systems perspective) is that those things are optional. If I don't want or need instant confirms, I don't have to use them. Another important thing to note is that you're likely a member of a very privileged class, by virtue of being on HN. You likely have a bank account and a credit card. Not everyone is so lucky, and…

> Some of those things are worth paying for. The revolutionary thing about Bitcoin (from a financial systems perspective) is that those things are optional. If I don't want or need instant confirms, I don't have to use them. Sorry, I think you missed the point of my question. For the use case I'm talking about, which is PoS, I don't see how those things are optional at all.

I wouldn't consider pos a very good usecase for bitcoin in general.

Credit cards are specifically designed for a consumer environment, and even if bitcoin continues towards the moon, I don't predict physical paper currency is going anywhere anytime soon.

Being able to buy a burrito with internet money is pretty cool, but I think of bitcoin as more of a useful network of human trust/power, than a consumerism enabler.

PS: Get a Bitcoin https://blockchain.info/charts/market-price?daysAverageStrin...

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#29

Post by mikemoka »

BrokenPipe wrote: post #21
tyho wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How long before, because that would make it impossible for people to spend their coins at all during that period, which could be annoying. Also, does this mean that to verify a transaction can be considered instant, the merchant has to check with your servers and there is no way of verifying this independently? Isn't this a serious privacy problem?

We don't provide instant confirmation but that does not mean you can't spend your funds without it. The minimum is 1 day or 144 blocks, default to 90 days, max is max block size.

Hi Lawrence,

probably that is the right step toward solving the transaction speed,albeit by a slightly more centralized workaround,it reminds me of a comment I made almost a year from now:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6130813

great job ;)

Re: Show HN: Instant confirmation via Bitcoin payment protocol

#30

Post by BrokenPipe »

nijiko wrote: post #28

Yay, easy way to confirm false transactions :D

Not really, the payment protocol gives you back the full transaction that can be checked by the merchant.

The 'instant' comes from trusting a third party that temporarily controls enough keys to block the funds before they can get double spent but long enough that the tx can be confirmed.

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