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Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

keithcirkel.co.uk

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Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#21

Post by Keithamus »

john_strinlai wrote: post #16

surprisingly fun. not knowing anything about color, i will admit i am a bit confused. i scored 0.0034 and was told "if you're not already calibrating displays for a living, you're leaving money on the table" . which, to me, implied i did quite well! but, reading the scores posted here, most people are doing a lot better than me. i doubt all of us are crazy good... so, i assume the front page is a typo: "most people l…

Right. The average score is under different test conditions. Obviously this game is a little silly version with very little accuracy to the lab testing, but hopefully it gets people thinking about this stuff a bit more! Which given your investigations into this, I would say it has succeeded.

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#22

Post by Keithamus »

patrakov wrote: post #15
erikig wrote: post #10

On a good monitor, I got to 0.0032 and then it all fell apart. Here's the related article on how much accuracy is really needed in CSS values. https://www.keithcirkel.co.uk/too-much-color/

It's worse. The code contains a function that, given the target ΔE, generates two colors in floating-point Oklab representation, separated by that distance. But there is no check whether the two generated colors end up rounding to exactly the same one on 8-bit displays. So, I was asked to find a boundary (while the claim was that there were two distinct colors 0.0013 ΔE apart) between RGB(80, 83, 152) and RGB(80, 83,…

I will get around to fixing this. An oversight. Apologies.

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#23

Post by john_strinlai »

Keithamus wrote: post #21
john_strinlai wrote: post #16

surprisingly fun. not knowing anything about color, i will admit i am a bit confused. i scored 0.0034 and was told "if you're not already calibrating displays for a living, you're leaving money on the table" . which, to me, implied i did quite well! but, reading the scores posted here, most people are doing a lot better than me. i doubt all of us are crazy good... so, i assume the front page is a typo: "most people l…

Right. The average score is under different test conditions. Obviously this game is a little silly version with very little accuracy to the lab testing, but hopefully it gets people thinking about this stuff a bit more! Which given your investigations into this, I would say it has succeeded.

>[...] but hopefully it gets people thinking about this stuff a bit more! Which given your investigations into this, I would say it has succeeded.

absolutely! thanks for posting it and the associated article.

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#25

Post by vunderba »

Nice job. Kind of reminds me of this one which increases the number of squares with the odd-one out becoming more subtle as you progress further in the game, but I prefer your sliding mechanic better for this kind of game.

https://vectorization.eu/color-perception-test

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#26

Post by refulgentis »

Keithamus wrote: post #22
patrakov wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's worse. The code contains a function that, given the target ΔE, generates two colors in floating-point Oklab representation, separated by that distance. But there is no check whether the two generated colors end up rounding to exactly the same one on 8-bit displays. So, I was asked to find a boundary (while the claim was that there were two distinct colors 0.0013 ΔE apart) between RGB(80, 83, 152) and RGB(80, 83,…

I will get around to fixing this. An oversight. Apologies.

Are you using Oklab channels to measure delta-E / difference? If so, Oklab is a hacky way to approximate a real colorspace with just one matrix multiplication, the channels have no meaning and are not related to delta-E. Use real Lab*, it'll take 10 minutes with an LLM.

EDIT: Just read the blog post. I thought HSL was bad for design, Oklab is much worse. It just goes right ahead and reuses color science terms so it sounds it got it all right. (dEOK existing and its "JND" being 0.02 absolutely made my head spin. None of this is recognizable to a color scientist)

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#28

Post by itishappy »

Keithamus wrote: post #21
john_strinlai wrote: post #16

surprisingly fun. not knowing anything about color, i will admit i am a bit confused. i scored 0.0034 and was told "if you're not already calibrating displays for a living, you're leaving money on the table" . which, to me, implied i did quite well! but, reading the scores posted here, most people are doing a lot better than me. i doubt all of us are crazy good... so, i assume the front page is a typo: "most people l…

Right. The average score is under different test conditions. Obviously this game is a little silly version with very little accuracy to the lab testing, but hopefully it gets people thinking about this stuff a bit more! Which given your investigations into this, I would say it has succeeded.

I'm colorblind, but I ended up getting a 0.0028 "much better than average" score. Hmm... Fun site!

To promote some further reading:

OKLab isn't actually a perceptually uniform colorspace. It's better than others, but it was specifically chosen as a tradeoff between accuracy and speed (hence the name OK). When you start digging this deep, you quickly learn that we have yet to invent any perceptually uniform colorspaces; even the most precise models we have end up using fits and approximations. Color has some really inconvenient properties like depending strongly on brightness and background. Frankly, given the differences in human biology (having orders of magnitude differences in relative numbers of each cone, for instance), it's surprising we agree as much as we do! Human color perception is an endless pit of complexity.

(Note, I don't say any of this to detract from what you've built here, merely expand. Your site is awesome and I love it!)

Re: Show HN: What's my JND? – a colour guessing game

#30

Post by hatthew »

vunderba wrote: post #25

Nice job. Kind of reminds me of this one which increases the number of squares with the odd-one out becoming more subtle as you progress further in the game, but I prefer your sliding mechanic better for this kind of game. https://vectorization.eu/color-perception-test

To me this seems primarily like an aim test, not a color perception test
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