21–30 of 41 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you really want is "can be completed after a certain amount of time", not "can be cancelled". You don't want iam policy rules to be skipped because they took too long.
Well CEL doesn't offer that guarantee. For any given "certain amount of time" you can write a CEL filter that takes longer.
Does CEL have any way to import other files? i.e. could it serve as a general purpose config language like jsonnet?
It's not really a configuration language like Jsonnet and CUE. It's an expression language for specifying things like conditions and policies. You _could_ abuse it as a configuration language, but it'd be overkill.
I would love if languages like Scala, Swift or F# had something like Cel but running at compile time so your program was evaluated against those restrictions. I believe a language called Idris has something like this
It seems weird to require an entirely new programming language for this tbh. They make the claim that it is special because it's not Turing-complete, but that's nonsense. Turing completeness is almost never a property that is important. I think in this case they're equating Turing incompleteness with "doesn't take a long time to execute" but that isn't really the case at all. The property you really want is "can be c…
There is a practical solution to it called “metering”, like gas mechanism in Ethereum’s EVM or cost calculation for complex GraphQL queries.
It seems weird to require an entirely new programming language for this tbh. They make the claim that it is special because it's not Turing-complete, but that's nonsense. Turing completeness is almost never a property that is important. I think in this case they're equating Turing incompleteness with "doesn't take a long time to execute" but that isn't really the case at all. The property you really want is "can be c…
Say “halting problem” without saying “halting problem” ;) There is a practical solution to it called “metering”, like gas mechanism in Ethereum’s EVM or cost calculation for complex GraphQL queries.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What you really want is "can be completed after a certain amount of time", not "can be cancelled". You don't want iam policy rules to be skipped because they took too long.
Well CEL doesn't offer that guarantee. For any given "certain amount of time" you can write a CEL filter that takes longer.
In the common use-cases for CEL that I've seen, you don't want to skip evaluation and fail open or closed arbitrarily. That can mean things like "abusive user gets access to data they should not be allowed to access because rule evaluation was skipped".
You also may have tons of rules and be evaluating them very often, so speed is important.
I would love if languages like Scala, Swift or F# had something like Cel but running at compile time so your program was evaluated against those restrictions. I believe a language called Idris has something like this
But most use cases are treating CEL as a user provided config, which requires runtime parsing and execution.
Remember the famous https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenspun%27s_tenth_rule?
> Any sufficiently complicated C or Fortran program contains an ad hoc, informally-specified, bug-ridden, slow implementation of half of Common Lisp.
CEL is a well specified, reasonably fast "embeddable" language with familiar syntax. I'm sure there are other languages that fits the description though.
It seems weird to require an entirely new programming language for this tbh. They make the claim that it is special because it's not Turing-complete, but that's nonsense. Turing completeness is almost never a property that is important. I think in this case they're equating Turing incompleteness with "doesn't take a long time to execute" but that isn't really the case at all. The property you really want is "can be c…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right but "guaranteed to terminate" is not a useful property. You could write a program that terminates... after a billion years.
You can estimate cost of CEL program using static analysis before running it. "estimate" only because size of runtime data is generally unknown (but obv you could limit that).