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Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

amircanaan.com

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Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#21

Post by throw310822 »

throw627933788 wrote: post #18
throw310822 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as they accept to live under a Palestinian state. (Normally immigration should have a path to citizenship and voting rights, but both Israel and Palestine would want to preserve the national nature of their states, as Israel already does).

How many Jews live under Palestinian control at the moment?

I have no idea, but it's funny that some people think this is a smart question that will make them score a point.

Why would Jews want to live as the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, when that means living under occupation, being subjected to Israeli military law, being powerless against settlers violence and the prepotence of Israel? And what would they do, immigrate there from New York and start a farm, with a pinky promise that they won't turn into settlers and seek to join Israel?

And of course it would be risky, when they are so easily associated with the settlers and the occupying power- no point in denying it.

Nonetheless, there are entire large Palestinian clans that claim to descend from Jews and retain some of their customs: a famous example is the Makhamra family.

Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#22

Post by mhb »

whyage wrote: post #20
throw310822 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah no, but I'm not trying to "manufacture a parallel". I am trying to argue (from the beginning of this thread) that those who have a political/ ideological/ religious/ economic interests in the continued expansion of Israel have no interest in putting themselves in a situation that would make it harder to justify an advancement of the colonisation. Since at the end of every single outburst of violence, the party tha…

OP here. I'd appreciate feedback on the book I posted about, if anyone feels like reading or skimming through it.

I looked at the beginning, but don't plan on going through 140 pages. You might find people on the Israel reddit who would be willing to do that.

Based on what I read though: Your fundamental assumption that it is significant that you're an atheist and this is a religious conflict on both sides is flawed. Many Israelis are atheists or cultural Jews. Jews have no notion of a caliphate or intifadah. It is confusing and unfortunate that Israel is a Jewish state, but that was forced on it by the numerous persecutors of Jews in the other places they have tried to live.

Here is Sam Harris on the topic of Israel: https://www.samharris.org/podcasts/making-sense-episodes/why...

Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#23

Post by mhb »

throw310822 wrote: post #21
throw627933788 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Jews live under Palestinian control at the moment?

I have no idea, but it's funny that some people think this is a smart question that will make them score a point. Why would Jews want to live as the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, when that means living under occupation, being subjected to Israeli military law, being powerless against settlers violence and the prepotence of Israel? And what would they do, immigrate there from New York and start a farm, with a…

And what happened to Israelis who wanted to take a stroll through Gaza (prior to October 7, of course)?

Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#24

Post by throw310822 »

mhb wrote: post #23
throw310822 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea, but it's funny that some people think this is a smart question that will make them score a point. Why would Jews want to live as the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, when that means living under occupation, being subjected to Israeli military law, being powerless against settlers violence and the prepotence of Israel? And what would they do, immigrate there from New York and start a farm, with a…

And what happened to Israelis who wanted to take a stroll through Gaza (prior to October 7, of course)?

What makes you think that Israelis can just "take a stroll" in a foreign country without asking permission (passport, visa, etc.)?

Anyway, there are Jewish journalists who have visited and spent time in Gaza. Here's Dan Cohen (precisely on the topic of safety of Jews in Gaza):

https://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/jewish-reporter-responds/#sth...

Here's Max Blumenthal:

https://globalvoices.org/2014/08/16/journalists-visit-gaza-t...

Here's Anthony Loewenstein:

https://mondoweiss.net/2009/07/hope-lives-in-gaza-despite-si...

Then there is Amira Hass, who actually lives in Ramallah and has reported from Gaza. These are the ones I know, there are certainly others.

Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#25

Post by mhb »

throw310822 wrote: post #24
mhb wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what happened to Israelis who wanted to take a stroll through Gaza (prior to October 7, of course)?

What makes you think that Israelis can just "take a stroll" in a foreign country without asking permission (passport, visa, etc.)? Anyway, there are Jewish journalists who have visited and spent time in Gaza. Here's Dan Cohen (precisely on the topic of safety of Jews in Gaza): https://mondoweiss.net/2015/06/jewish-reporter-responds/#sth... Here's Max Blumenthal: https://globalvoices.org/2014/08/16/journalists-visit-g…

When did Gaza become a country?

Re: Show HN: Holy Mess – Israeli–Palestinian conflict from an atheist angle

#26

Post by throw57990226 »

throw310822 wrote: post #21
throw627933788 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many Jews live under Palestinian control at the moment?

I have no idea, but it's funny that some people think this is a smart question that will make them score a point. Why would Jews want to live as the Palestinians in the West Bank or Gaza, when that means living under occupation, being subjected to Israeli military law, being powerless against settlers violence and the prepotence of Israel? And what would they do, immigrate there from New York and start a farm, with a…

Jews that became Muslim are not a good counter-example.

Jews who haven’t converted to Islam have been ethnically cleansed from the West Bank by Jordan when they occupied it, and this apartheid is maintained by the Palestinian Authority. Anyone visibly Jewish who enters areas under total PA control gets arrested (or lynched).

Why can’t Jews live under Palestinian authority the same way Muslims live in Israel? This racism has led to a situation where the only way the Jews of the West Bank can be safe is by having an IDF presence.

Your “fears” of Jews turning into settlers are no different to the Islamophobes who say Muslims who come to live in western countries will turn them into caliphates.

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