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Show HN: Tabstack – Browser infrastructure for AI agents (by Mozilla)

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Re: Show HN: Tabstack – Browser infrastructure for AI agents (by Mozilla)

#21

With all respect to Mozilla, "respects robots.txt" makes this effectively DoA. AI agents are a form of user agent like any other when initiated by a human, no matter the personal opinion of the content publisher (unlike the egregious automated /scraping/ done for model training).

This is a valid perspective. Since this is an emerging space, we are still figuring out how to show up in a healthy way for the open web. We recognize that the balance between content owners and the users or developers accessing that content is delicate. Because of that, our initial stance is to default to respecting websites as much as possible. That said, to be clear on our implementation: we currently only respond…

This tension is so close to a fundamental question we’re all dealing with, I think: “Who is the web for? Humans or machines?”

I think too often people fall completely on one side of this question or the other. I think it’s really complicated, and deserves a lot of nuance. I think it mostly comes down to having a right to exert control over how our data should be used, and I think most of it’s currently shaped by Section 230.

Generally speaking, platforms consider data to be owned by the platform. GDPR and CCPA/CPRA try to be the counter to that, but those are also too-crude a tool.

Let’s take an example: Reddit. Let’s say a user is asking for help and I post a solution that I’m proud of. In that act, I’m generally expecting to help the original person who asked the question, and since I’m aware that the post is public, I’m expecting it to help whoever comes next with the same question.

Now (correct me if I’m wrong, but) GDPR considers my public post to be my data. I’m allowed to request that Reddit return it to me or remove it from the website. But then with Reddit’s recent API policies, that data is also Reddit’s product. They’re selling access to it for … whatever purposes they outline in the use policy there. That’s pretty far outside what a user is thinking when they post on Reddit. And the other side of it as well — was my answer used to train a model that benefits from my writing and converts it into money for a model maker? (To name just an example).

I think ultimately, platforms have too much control, and users have too little specificity in declaring who should be allowed to use their content and for what purposes.

Re: Show HN: Tabstack – Browser infrastructure for AI agents (by Mozilla)

#22
post #17

> We don't spin up a full browser instance for every request (which is slow and expensive) there's really no excuse for not spinning up a browser every request. a Firecracker VM boots ~50ms nowadays > We respect robots.txt rules. you might, but most companies in the market for your service don't want this

Regarding the browser instances: While VM boot times have definitely improved, accessing a site through a full browser render isn't always the most efficient way to retrieve information. Our goal is to get the most up-to-date information as fast as possible. For example, something we may consider for the future is balancing when to implement direct API access versus browser rendering. If a website offers the same inf…

thank you so much, great to hear the thinking behind these considerations :)

Re: Show HN: Tabstack – Browser infrastructure for AI agents (by Mozilla)

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's difficult to explain? If you're having an agent crawl a handful of pages to answer a targeted query, that's clearly not mass scraping. If you're pulling down entire websites and storing their contents, that's clearly not normal use. Sure, there's a gray area, but I bet almost everyone who doesn't work for an AI company would be able to agree whether any given activity was "mass scraping" or "normal use".

What is worse: 10,000 agents running daily targeted queries on your site, or 1 query pulling 10,000 records to cache and post-process your content without unnecessarily burdening your service?

The single agent pulling regularly 10k records, which nobody will ever use, is worse than the 10k agents coming from the same source, and using the same cache, they fill when doing a targeted request. But even worse are 10k agents from 10k different sources, scraping 10k sites each, of which 9999 pages are not relevant for their request.

At the end it's all about the impact on the servers, and those can be optimized, but this does not seem to happen at the moment at large. So in that regard, centralizing usage and honouring the rules is a good step, and the rest are details to figure out on the way.

Re: Show HN: Tabstack – Browser infrastructure for AI agents (by Mozilla)

#26
The escalation logic (lightweight fetch → full browser only when needed) is a nice optimization. That's exactly the kind of thing that's painful to build yourself.

Curious about debugging: when an agent's request fails or returns unexpected data, how do you surface what actually happened in the browser? We've found that visibility into the actual request/response chain is often the missing piece when debugging agent behavior.

Good call on the ethics stance with robots.txt and User-Agent identification.

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